The Essential Knight

[Jack99]

They didn't just say it, they did a press conference where they said "We want to bring back lapsed players!"

(For those who don't know what a press conference is, it's kind of like an Internet rumor + you have a video of the guy actually saying it on youtube. And it was uploaded by the company.)

No logic or proof, kk plz, this is the internetz.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

They didn't just say it, they did a press conference where they said "We want to bring back lapsed players!"

(For those who don't know what a press conference is, it's kind of like an Internet rumor + you have a video of the guy actually saying it on youtube. And it was uploaded by the company.)

Wow, such a press conference sounds like a load of work! All those photoshopping and dubbing and all that...

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Are tons of feats/items/etc going to now get errata so they play well with the Knight? How is that going to affect their utility for the existing classes? Or will DMs simply be forced into saying "no, no, Mr Knight, YOU can't use existing 4e stuff, unless I look at it first." UGH!

This right here! I honestly believe this is where the "design going forward" comes into play. I believe the PHB Fighter will not receive future support because the Essentials Fighter will be the default Fighter for D&D.

And I disagree, so also apparently does WoTC but who listens to them.
I can see no problem with the knight as issued vis a vis the existing fighters but there is no atual way to know who is correct until the actual information is released.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

And I disagree, so also apparently does WoTC but who listens to them.
I can see no problem with the knight as issued vis a vis the existing fighters but there is no atual way to know who is correct until the actual information is released.

There are a few items though (Master's Blade for example) that seem like they're going to be exceptionally useful for a Knight. In fact I'd have to say that Master's Blade is almost nerf-worthy strong for a Knight. There are probably a few other similar examples. The vast majority of items will work fine though. Some feats may also be a bit problematical.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Ok, so now you have +2 damage AND const damage on an adjacent creature one encounter per day? OMG that sounds terribly unbalanced to me...

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Ok, so now you have +2 damage AND const damage on an adjacent creature one encounter per day? OMG that sounds terribly unbalanced to me...

Master's Blade gives you an untyped bonus TO-HIT equal to its enhancement bonus. That is a property, not a power. It means that a Master's Blade basically gives 2x enhancement bonus to-hit to a knight for 100% of its attacks. The power allows you to use 2 stances at once for the whole encounter, which again for a knight is pretty powerful as it would let you both cleave and get a +2 damage (or whatever the other stances will do). Frankly I don't see how it can avoid getting errata as a double to-hit bonus is actually pretty much flat out broken when it applies to all attacks. There is NO item for any other class that does that. Heck Staff of Ruin was broken just for doing that to the DAMAGE roll.

 

[Njall]

Master's Blade gives you an untyped bonus TO-HIT equal to its enhancement bonus. That is a property, not a power. It means that a Master's Blade basically gives 2x enhancement bonus to-hit to a knight for 100% of its attacks. The power allows you to use 2 stances at once for the whole encounter, which again for a knight is pretty powerful as it would let you both cleave and get a +2 damage (or whatever the other stances will do). Frankly I don't see how it can avoid getting errata as a double to-hit bonus is actually pretty much flat out broken when it applies to all attacks. There is NO item for any other class that does that. Heck Staff of Ruin was broken just for doing that to the DAMAGE roll.

?

Property: while you're using a stance power, you gain a +1 to attack rolls on melee basic attacks and at-wills attack with this weapon

This is the level 29 version. Are you thinking of another item? Has master's blade been errata'ed?

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

?


This is the level 29 version. Are you thinking of another item? Has master's blade been errata'ed?

Meh, its just that the Compendium doesn't list things as one listing, you can't tell what is a fixed bonus and what is tied to enhancement. So yes, you're correct, it is only a fixed +1 apparently. More reasonable. Still the ONLY item and class combination that gives a fixed always available untyped +ANYTHING to-hit. That's still probably nerf-worthy.

 

[triqui]

Meh, its just that the Compendium doesn't list things as one listing, you can't tell what is a fixed bonus and what is tied to enhancement. So yes, you're correct, it is only a fixed +1 apparently. More reasonable. Still the ONLY item and class combination that gives a fixed always available untyped +ANYTHING to-hit. That's still probably nerf-worthy.

It's not much harder than Head Band of Intellect +Mind Iron Crossbow in a sniper rogue.

 

[Scribble]

No, not at all. I'm asking what happens to the PHB Fighter when the Essential Fighter becomes the favored/supported Fighter or Vice Versa. Which one gets supported?

Whichever is popular?

Personally, and based on what Mike Mearls said earlier, I think it's both.
Similar to how they handle multiple classes in the same game, and multiple builds for the same class. There's no reason to choose one over the other... BUT just like the follow whatever class/build is currently popular and support what people want, they will probably do so with the different sub builds/builds as well.

That's the basis of my point- if all things are equal between the two, and there isn't a rules reason to choose one over the other (ie one grants a bonus that's too good to pass up) then it's purely a taste thing, and if more people prefer one over the other Wizards should follow that preference.

So no problems in they reprint/update Orcus in the MV, right?

Why should I care?

Yes. Yes I am.

I'm one of the Lapsed Players.

I tried 4e for a year roughly under a bunch of different DMs (myself one also) and our group owned every major release between PHB1 and Divine Power. I had ad DDi Subscription during that period too.

I gave 4e more than its fair-share of time to wow me. It didn't. However, as I've read more about the Essentials line, I've seen more and more evidence they are extending an olive branch to people like me. Do you really think today's teenagers care the Red box uses the vintage logo and Errol Otis artwork? (I work with kids for a living; 1983 might as well be pre-history to them.) For the first time since literally PHB 2 came out, I'm excited about a D&D product again; after I thought I had been left in the dust, content to spend my cash on Pathfinder and similar d20 material. Here is WotCs only chance to win me back; so far I like what I see.

Fair enough- based on your comment I was under the impression you'd given up completely, and had no interest in the game.

I assumed incorrectly.

If WotC wants my money, as well as the money that came from my gaming group (some of which were collectors until 4e) and dozens of other gaming groups like mine, they better damn well here what I say. So far, I'm giving props as to their design ideas, and am eager to see if this heralds a new direction for 4e (one I might be able to get behind again) or merely a one-off product designed to trick a handful of lapsed players into buying their stuff again.

I don't think it's either, and that's what I've been trying to get across. What it seems like they've discovered is that there's room in the game to support other areas of interest not currently being supported. There's no reason to choose one over the other UNLESS the majority of players want the game to move in a certain direction.

So far, I like what WotC is doing. I can't say the same for their apologists.

Where is this coming from man?

I disagree with your comments. If you want to continue discussing the disagreement cool, but if it's going to start getting into insults, I'm done.