The Essential Knight

[jbear]

whoah... 16 pages... cant read through all that atm, and at the risk that some one has brought this up already...

If I recall rightly a lot of the coolest fighter feats (Lesser Style Feats) come into play with MBAs. So the Knight is also going to seriously benefit from that as well. And if the stances are designed to influence the the MBA then Combat Challenge and OAtks just got a lot more potent as well.

Anyway... 16 pages, so I seriously doubt that im saying anything new... carry on!

 

[CovertOps]

whoah... 16 pages... cant read through all that atm, and at the risk that some one has brought this up already...

If I recall rightly a lot of the coolest fighter feats (Lesser Style Feats) come into play with MBAs. So the Knight is also going to seriously benefit from that as well. And if the stances are designed to influence the the MBA then Combat Challenge and OAtks just got a lot more potent as well.

Anyway... 16 pages, so I seriously doubt that im saying anything new... carry on!

Your comments made me think of something. My Fighter player is a min/maxer of the most annoying kind. I fully expect him to try and use one of those at-wills that fighters get that says "Special: Can be used in place of a melee basic attack", THEN try to add the stance on top of it.

 

[fjw70]

Your comments made me think of something. My Fighter player is a min/maxer of the most annoying kind. I fully expect him to try and use one of those at-wills that fighters get that says "Special: Can be used in place of a melee basic attack", THEN try to add the stance on top of it.

So far there is no way for one character to get Fighter at-wills and Knight stances.

But I still don't think the combo would work. "Used in place of a MBA" doesn't not mean it gets buffed as one.

 

[MrMyth]

So far there is no way for one character to get Fighter at-wills and Knight stances.

But I still don't think the combo would work. "Used in place of a MBA" doesn't not mean it gets buffed as one.

It depends on the wording of the specific power.

Wicked Strike: "You can use the power in place of a melee basic attack."
-Does not get buffed as a melee basic attack.

Eldritch Strike: "This power counts as a melee basic attack. "
-Does get buffed as a melee basic attack.

I don't think any fighter powers combo with the Knight, but they can probably snag powers from a few other sources that would. Of course, that would require jumping through various hoops (Paragon Multiclassing or Half-Elf Dilettante), and the boosts probably wouldn't be too extreme compared to the bonuses they will be getting from the Knight stances anyway.

 

[CovertOps]

I suppose I should have added that I didn't expect there to be a way to get both at-wills AND stances and that even if you can that you have correctly pointed out that you can't stack the benefits, HOWEVER that won't stop my annoying player from trying.

 

[Riley]

I suppose I should have added that I didn't expect there to be a way to get both at-wills AND stances and that even if you can that you have correctly pointed out that you can't stack the benefits, HOWEVER that won't stop my annoying player from trying.

Well, a human gets a bonus at-will...

 

[mkill]

Well, a human gets a bonus at-will...

There's already a thread about it. Most likely humans will get a bonus stance, rather than an at-will power (which won't be in he Essentials book anyway and make it useless for beginners who don't have other books.)

As for Eldritch Strike (probably via half-elf), we'll have to see. Even if this build works, it's possible that it will cost so much in feats that it's just not worth it compared to a vanilla Toughness + Weapon Focus etc. build.

 

[mkill]

Second off, make me a tiefling flail fighter with the stealth skill and Rain of Blows using only your PHB, then show up with it at an RPGA event or D&D encounters.

Rain of Blows requires Dex 15. That's a high price to pay for a build that only gets race bonuses to off-stats.

Besides, even if Rain of Blows lets you attack 3 times, it's only worth it at high levels when your damage bonuses are high enough. Before Paragon, it's no better than other stuff you get at level 3. You're better off if you dump Dex and take Sweeping Blow instead.

So yeah, I can make you a nice PHB-only Tiefling Fighter with a flail. Grab Hellfire Blood and a Flaming Weapon. However, once you hit Paragon you really want to add Martial Power to the available sources, for the Tiefling Warfiend PP. Just sayin'.

Oh, and again I don't get the point you're trying to make here. I assume it's something about "life would suck if WotC drops support for PHB fighters". Well, it wouldn't really be a big deal. After 2 splatbooks and some Dragon articles, there isn't much more the class needs.

Oh, and back to the topic of the thread, I'm pretty sure Tieflings will make awesome Knights too! (Even with flails).

 

[UngeheuerLich]

16 Str, 14 Dex, 13 Con 14 Wis, 12 int and cha 10, using a flail taking rain of blows makes a fighter with an attack bonus of 6, which is average. He can do its job and can use the extra attack of rain of blows when he retrains into it at level 4.
He also has a greatsword at hand.

 

[Aegeri]

Actually you've both missed his point entirely. Rain of Blows no longer functions the same as it does in the PHB, as it was arguable if it granted four attacks or not by RAW originally and each attack had +strength. The PHB tiefling he's picked not because it's any good as a flail fighter, but because its racial power and many feats were entirely rewritten in the recent errata. The stealth skill was picked because, like the two things above it no longer functions anywhere near written in the PHB. Essentially he's just said to pick three heavily errata'ed elements from the PHB and turn up somewhere to see how it goes.

The answer will be, not very well and that's the point he's making.