D&D 5E (2014) The "everyone at full fighting ability at 1 hp" conundrum

[Garthanos]

LOL then I typoed "mean" for meant....

 

[3catcircus]

Let me make an example.

Suppose hp is meat. Suppose your hp is 10.
Suppose that we treat all blows from dragons as lethal.
Now our PC's die to dragons to fast.

Therefore, to allow them to fight dragons we create a mechanic whereby they have a pool of points and can spend a point and avoid any damage - essentially turning a hit into what in game would be classified as a miss.

However, this small pool of resources where we spend one at a time doesn't allow us to differentiate the power of dragons with the power of giants.

So to solve that we change the system where an attack has a power value associated with it and we still get a pool of points to spend but a lot more now to cover the power value differences in attacks.

HP as we have it today is just combing the meat and the resource pool I spoke about above into a single value and then never defining where meat ends and the other begins. What are the benefits of hp this way? It allows a lot of narrative freedom.

I would argue that a PC with only 10 hp should die quickly when going against a dragon. A PC with 100 hp should also die quickly. That's really they issue for me - no matter how "experienced" and "heroic" the PCs are, giant monsters, lava, or falling 100 feet should all be lethal barring use of some type of luck mechanic.

The way D&D is played, PCs who are otherwise physically the same as the average peasant can go around taking 1000x the damage. Unless they're the 3hp wizard killed by a housecat.

 

[Garthanos]

should all be lethal barring use of some type of luck mechanic.

Coincidentally Gygax described hit points including luck and divine favor and magic shielding and so on... could be they are a part of D&Ds luck mechanic

 

[3catcircus]

Coincidentally Gygax described hit points including luck and divine favor and magic shielding and so on... could be they are a part of D&Ds luck mechanic

Oh I get that, it just doesn't really make any sense j using a single number to represent all of that - it's too abstract now that D&D is much more tactical than in the OD&D days.

 

[PsyzhranV2]

I would argue that a PC with only 10 hp should die quickly when going against a dragon. A PC with 100 hp should also die quickly. That's really they issue for me - no matter how "experienced" and "heroic" the PCs are, giant monsters, lava, or falling 100 feet should all be lethal barring use of some type of luck mechanic.

That would be more realistic.

That also wouldn't be very fun.

I apply action movie logic to D&D.

In action movies characters become visibly injured. They get scrapes, they start looking dirty. They grimace more. They might even develop a limp.

They still fight at full capacity though.

parrots what he says and drops mic

I definitely fall more on the dramatic fiction side of drama vs simulation. I don't think D&D is the best system of modeling the latter, and I also think that it would be tonally dissonant for it to try and model that (at least its later incarnations).

 

[Garthanos]

Oh I get that, it just doesn't really make any sense j using a single number to represent all of that - it's too abstract now that D&D is much more tactical than in the OD&D days.

I kind of think Heroic Luck is a pervasive and fundamental component of D&D .... it may be why I liked characters getting better at things not specifically their specialty as they level in some iterations of D&D. Because to me that is also heroic luck manifesting.

 

[Garthanos]

When I was pointing out that "realistic" response to injury was highly erratic (it kind of connects with hit points being a luck mechanic)

 

[Tony Vargas]

The way D&D is played, PCs who are otherwise physically the same as the average peasant can go around taking 1000x the damage.

TBF, even with the hp inflation of 5e, no PC has 4000 hps.

 

[FrogReaver]

I kind of think Heroic Luck is a pervasive and fundamental component of D&D .... it may be why I liked characters getting better at things not specifically their specialty as they level in some iterations of D&D. Because to me that is also heroic luck manifesting.

I like that as well!

 

[FrogReaver]

I would argue that a PC with only 10 hp should die quickly when going against a dragon. A PC with 100 hp should also die quickly. That's really they issue for me - no matter how "experienced" and "heroic" the PCs are, giant monsters, lava, or falling 100 feet should all be lethal barring use of some type of luck mechanic.

The way D&D is played, PCs who are otherwise physically the same as the average peasant can go around taking 1000x the damage. Unless they're the 3hp wizard killed by a housecat.

I think your concept of realism is not nearly as fantastic as actual realism.

President Reagan said of Sgt. Benavidez:

"After a short period of time on the ground, the team met heavy enemy resistance, and requested emergency extraction. Three helicopters attempted extraction, but were unable to land due to intense enemy small arms and antiaircraft fire. Sergeant Benavidez was at the Forward Operating Base in Loc Ninh monitoring the operation by radio when these helicopters returned to off-load wounded crew members and to assess aircraft damage. Sergeant Benavidez voluntarily boarded a returning aircraft to assist in another extraction attempt. Realizing that all the team members were either dead or wounded and unable to move to the pickup zone, he directed the aircraft to a nearby clearing where he jumped from the hovering helicopter, and ran approximately 75 meters under withering small arms fire to the crippled team.

Prior to reaching the team's position, he was wounded in his right leg, face, and head. Despite these painful injuries, he took charge, repositioning the team members and directing their fire to facilitate the landing of an extraction aircraft, and the loading of wounded and dead team members. He then threw smoke canisters to direct the aircraft to the team's position.

Despite his severe wounds and under intense enemy fire, he carried and dragged half of the wounded team members to the awaiting aircraft. He then provided protective fire by running alongside the aircraft as it moved to pick up the remaining team members. As the enemy's fire intensified, he hurried to recover the body and the classified documents on the dead team leader. When he reached the team leader's body, Sergeant Benavidez was severely wounded by small arms fire in the abdomen and grenade fragments in his back.

At nearly the same moment, the aircraft pilot was mortally wounded, and his helicopter crashed. Although in extremely critical condition due to his multiple wounds, Sergeant Benavidez secured the classified documents and made his way back to the wreckage, where he aided the wounded out of the overturned aircraft, and gathered the stunned survivors into a defensive perimeter.

Under increasing enemy automatic weapons and grenade fire, he moved around the perimeter distributing water and ammunition to his weary men, reinstilling in them a will to live and fight. Facing a build-up of enemy opposition with a beleaguered team, Sergeant Benavidez mustered his strength, and began calling in tactical air strikes and directing the fire from supporting gunships, to suppress the enemy's fire and so permit another extraction attempt. He was wounded again in his thigh by small arms fire while administering first aid to a wounded team member just before another extraction helicopter was able to land.

His indomitable spirit kept him going as he began to ferry his comrades to the craft. On his second trip with the wounded, he was clubbed from behind by an enemy soldier. In the ensuing hand-to-hand combat, he sustained additional wounds to his head and arms before killing his adversary. He then continued under devastating fire to carry the wounded to the helicopter. Upon reaching the aircraft, he spotted and killed two enemy soldiers who were rushing the craft from an angle that prevented the aircraft door gunner from firing upon them.

With little strength remaining, he made one last trip to the perimeter to ensure that all classified material had been collected or destroyed, and to bring in the remaining wounded. Only then, in extremely serious condition from numerous wounds and loss of blood, did he allow himself to be pulled into the extraction aircraft."