D&D 5E The "everyone at full fighting ability at 1 hp" conundrum

[Garthanos]

TBF, even with the hp inflation of 5e, no PC has 4000 hps.

And in 4e a starting pc might have what a sum total of 6 or 7 times what he started with.

 

[Lanefan]

And in 4e a starting pc might have what a sum total of 6 or 7 times what he started with.

As in, 6 or 7 times the h.p. of a commoner?

Or are you trying to say that a high-level 4e PC might have 6 or 7 times what it had at 1st level?

Unclear...

 

[cbwjm]

As in, 6 or 7 times the h.p. of a commoner?

Or are you trying to say that a high-level 4e PC might have 6 or 7 times what it had at 1st level?

Unclear...

A 1st level 4e character could. In 4e at 1st level you start out with a number of hit points + your constitution score. Not sure on the exact numbers but 1st level PCs easily had 20 to 30 hit points at level 1 making that 1st level more suvivable. Level up though, there was only a set number of hit points, no constitution modifier was added, instead the constitution modifier altered the number of healing surges you had available.

 

[Greenstone.Walker]

On the playability side, we really just have to consider the alternative: The Death Spiral. Once you start modeling wounds, being wounded saps your ability to both eliminate the opposition, and to avoid taking further wounds, and the balance of the combat you're just circling the bowl.

QFT. In a real fight, it's usually not who gets the last hit that wins; it's who gets the first decent hit. Then it's all over except for the stomping.

This is not fun in a cinematic game (or movie, for that matter).

 

[5ekyu]

QFT. In a real fight, it's usually not who gets the last hit that wins; it's who gets the first decent hit. Then it's all over except for the stomping.

This is not fun in a cinematic game (or movie, for that matter).

Actually, one of my comments today about a recent tv show is that they did seem to modrl that very thing. So far, few episodes in, seems like teo-three slugfesrs an ep and the first to score typically wins the fight.

Their main method for plot advancement and second actcrwist seems to be the urprise bludgeoning of the hero.

But, they dont set stakes of osing these skirmishes as dead.

That I think us ehere rpg play in certain styles departs from snd loses to these fictions, not enough staging and setup for non-lethal losses to be common.

Supers being a notable exception.

Do not take this as endorsing death spiral. I am not a fsn having seen them play out in many systems including homebrew 1e.

 

[Garthanos]

As in, 6 or 7 times the h.p. of a commoner?

Or are you trying to say that a high-level 4e PC might have 6 or 7 times what it had at 1st level?

Unclear...

Six or 7 times what it had a level 1 which was noticeably less than a relatively normal city/town guard

"6 or 7 times what he started with." - is pretty clear

 

[Garthanos]

The watchman has 25 percent more than a level 1 fighter PC... them superheros arent made like they used to be.

 

[Garthanos]

Do not take this as endorsing death spiral. I am not a fsn having seen them play out in many systems including homebrew 1e.

I read back in the early 90s some us government reports about how soldiers injured seem to be either near 95 to 100 percent function from a wound or completely out (I do not remember it mentioning much details about the type of wounds but it seemed like some were minor and some were major and it may not have made much difference but mainly people had all or nothing. (I suppose a randomly induced super fast death spiral might describe that realistically.

 

[3catcircus]

I think your concept of realism is not nearly as fantastic as actual realism.

President Reagan said of Sgt. Benavidez:

"After a short period of time on the ground, the team met heavy enemy resistance, and requested emergency extraction. Three helicopters attempted extraction, but were unable to land due to intense enemy small arms and antiaircraft fire. Sergeant Benavidez was at the Forward Operating Base in Loc Ninh monitoring the operation by radio when these helicopters returned to off-load wounded crew members and to assess aircraft damage. Sergeant Benavidez voluntarily boarded a returning aircraft to assist in another extraction attempt. Realizing that all the team members were either dead or wounded and unable to move to the pickup zone, he directed the aircraft to a nearby clearing where he jumped from the hovering helicopter, and ran approximately 75 meters under withering small arms fire to the crippled team.

Prior to reaching the team's position, he was wounded in his right leg, face, and head. Despite these painful injuries, he took charge, repositioning the team members and directing their fire to facilitate the landing of an extraction aircraft, and the loading of wounded and dead team members. He then threw smoke canisters to direct the aircraft to the team's position.

Despite his severe wounds and under intense enemy fire, he carried and dragged half of the wounded team members to the awaiting aircraft. He then provided protective fire by running alongside the aircraft as it moved to pick up the remaining team members. As the enemy's fire intensified, he hurried to recover the body and the classified documents on the dead team leader. When he reached the team leader's body, Sergeant Benavidez was severely wounded by small arms fire in the abdomen and grenade fragments in his back.

At nearly the same moment, the aircraft pilot was mortally wounded, and his helicopter crashed. Although in extremely critical condition due to his multiple wounds, Sergeant Benavidez secured the classified documents and made his way back to the wreckage, where he aided the wounded out of the overturned aircraft, and gathered the stunned survivors into a defensive perimeter.

Under increasing enemy automatic weapons and grenade fire, he moved around the perimeter distributing water and ammunition to his weary men, reinstilling in them a will to live and fight. Facing a build-up of enemy opposition with a beleaguered team, Sergeant Benavidez mustered his strength, and began calling in tactical air strikes and directing the fire from supporting gunships, to suppress the enemy's fire and so permit another extraction attempt. He was wounded again in his thigh by small arms fire while administering first aid to a wounded team member just before another extraction helicopter was able to land.

His indomitable spirit kept him going as he began to ferry his comrades to the craft. On his second trip with the wounded, he was clubbed from behind by an enemy soldier. In the ensuing hand-to-hand combat, he sustained additional wounds to his head and arms before killing his adversary. He then continued under devastating fire to carry the wounded to the helicopter. Upon reaching the aircraft, he spotted and killed two enemy soldiers who were rushing the craft from an angle that prevented the aircraft door gunner from firing upon them.

With little strength remaining, he made one last trip to the perimeter to ensure that all classified material had been collected or destroyed, and to bring in the remaining wounded. Only then, in extremely serious condition from numerous wounds and loss of blood, did he allow himself to be pulled into the extraction aircraft."

Yes - this is possible. What isn't included here is the fact that MSgt Benavidez was staggering as a result of his wounds, had to call in airstrikes by ear because he was blinded, passed out numerous times, woke up in an open body bag while being declared dead, then spent almost a year in hospital recovering from these wounds.

Definitely not 100% capable after being wounded.

Vietnam Green Beret Had 37 Wounds And Still Carried On Fighting - He Was Awarded The Medal of Honor | War History Online

Master Sergeant Raul “Roy” Perez Benavidez was shot several times, suffered two grenade blasts, and got bayonetted while saving the lives of eight men.

www.warhistoryonline.com

 

[FrogReaver]

Yes - this is possible. What isn't included here is the fact that MSgt Benavidez was staggering as a result of his wounds, had to call in airstrikes by ear because he was blinded, passed out numerous times, woke up in an open body bag while being declared dead, then spent almost a year in hospital recovering from these wounds.

Vietnam Green Beret Had 37 Wounds And Still Carried On Fighting - He Was Awarded The Medal of Honor | War History Online

Master Sergeant Raul “Roy” Perez Benavidez was shot several times, suffered two grenade blasts, and got bayonetted while saving the lives of eight men.

www.warhistoryonline.com

I'm not following the point you are trying to make with this additional information?