The Evolution of the Fighter - take 2

[mhensley]

Over the course of the last week or so, I worked up a little simulator that pitted a Human Fighter from each edition of D&D versus a Goblin from the same edition. At least 1000 trials were run for each Fighter and this is the data I got. It shows the average number of Goblins that the Fighter killed before dying. Make of it what you will.

And yes, the 4e Fighter was fighting Goblin Minions. That seemed the fairest comparison to earlier edition Goblins who also usually went down with one hit.

The exact details of each fighter are on my site.

 

[Grimstaff]

I notice you gave the 4E fighter Cleave, but not the 3E fighter. This would seem to narrow the margin signifigantly, nearly doubling the 3E fighter's kills.

Also, If you advanced the 4E and 1-2E fighters to 3rd lvl, and compared the number of kills (the 1st and 2nd edition fighters now can kill up to 3 goblins a round, as they have less than 1HD), again the margin gets closer, as you are nearly tripling the 1E and 2E fighters' kills.

I would like to see the statistics for all these fighters at 10th level (don't forget to give 3E fighter Great Cleave).

 

[Grimstaff]

I'm curious, why did the results for the 1E and 2E fighters come out differently, you list the same exact stats for fighter and goblin in both editions?

 

[Zweischneid]

I notice you gave the 4E fighter Cleave, but not the 3E fighter. This would seem to narrow the margin signifigantly, nearly doubling the 3E fighter's kills.

Also, If you advanced the 4E and 1-2E fighters to 3rd lvl, and compared the number of kills (the 1st and 2nd edition fighters now can kill up to 3 goblins a round, as they have less than 1HD), again the margin gets closer, as you are nearly tripling the 1E and 2E fighters' kills.

I would like to see the statistics for all these fighters at 10th level (don't forget to give 3E fighter Great Cleave).

I don't think he used cleave for the simulation (since it is a positional power, it works oddly with just a numerical simulation), he just gave it cause 4e fighter get loads of powers.

Notes: The 4e Fighter is assumed to use his Sure Strike power every round. He uses an action point to use his Healing Surge.

 

[Grimstaff]

I don't think he used cleave for the simulation (since it is a positional power, it works oddly with just a numerical simulation), he just gave it cause 4e fighter get loads of powers.

If by "loads" you mean "4".

 

[drothgery]

If by "loads" you mean "4".

Well, +1 racial power unless you're a dwarf or a human.

 

[MerricB]

And yes, the 4e Fighter was fighting Goblin Minions. That seemed the fairest comparison to earlier edition Goblins who also usually went down with one hit.

Did you also change the 4e Fighter so he went down in one hit, as he did in OD&D?

You need to add another column for the 4e fighter vs. 1st level Goblins (non minions).

Cheers!

 

[mhensley]

I notice you gave the 4E fighter Cleave, but not the 3E fighter. This would seem to narrow the margin signifigantly, nearly doubling the 3E fighter's kills.

It wouldn't because Cleave is useless for either edition in this exercise. They could only attack one goblin per round. The 4e fighter has Cleave but never uses it. He only uses Sure Strike as that was the optimum one to use for this. (and it made programming it a lot easier )

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I don't think a Goblin Minion is "fair" in the simulation - a Minion is something that never really existed before 4E, and is basically 1/4 of a normal creature of its level. I'd suggest using a regular level 1 Goblin.

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Another thing comes to mind: How much closer to next level does the Fighter get by killing one Goblin? (If you'd use the Minion, I am certain the rate will be very slow, but I think if you use a regular Goblin, it will be faster, probably faster then all previous editions, or at least as 3rd edition - assumption is you need 10 encounters to gain one level in 4th, while 3rd assumed 13.33 encounters.)

 

[mhensley]

You need to add another column for the 4e fighter vs. 1st level Goblins (non minions).

Here is the original thread I posted with the numbers I got from working out the averages on a spreadsheet. The 4e fighter there fights non-minions. The numbers are a bit different for everyone as I was not using the simulator program at that point which I consider to be much more accurate.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?t=232244

After crunching the numbers when writing the simulator, I found the minion to be a fairer test. It's not just about hit points. The 4e Fighter's attack bonus has doubled compared to the 3e one while AC's have remained the same.