The Expanse (Spoilers)

[RangerWickett]

It's arguable that if Marco had died at that point, his movement would have splintered, and the anti-Marco sentiment among Belters wouldn't have reached a critical mass necessary to create the three-party alliance that eventually led to the transport union and a more stable peace.

But sure, if you value one group of human lives more than another, not killing someone from the other side when you have the chance seems like foolishness.

 

[payn]

It's arguable that if Marco had died at that point, his movement would have splintered, and the anti-Marco sentiment among Belters wouldn't have reached a critical mass necessary to create the three-party alliance that eventually led to the transport union and a more stable peace.

But sure, if you value one group of human lives more than another, not killing someone from the other side when you have the chance seems like foolishness.

 

[Ryujin]

It's arguable that if Marco had died at that point, his movement would have splintered, and the anti-Marco sentiment among Belters wouldn't have reached a critical mass necessary to create the three-party alliance that eventually led to the transport union and a more stable peace.

But sure, if you value one group of human lives more than another, not killing someone from the other side when you have the chance seems like foolishness.

I'll avoid Godwinning the thread with the typical time travel conundrum

 

[Stalker0]

Yes, it was strategically short sighted, but ethically? In that moment Marco no longer posed an imminent mortal threat, so it isn't actually justified to kill him and everyone on his ship. It's a real quandary how you should deal with someone you suspect will hurt others, but whom you don't have the ability to detain.

Marco is the leader of your enemy, his continued existence is an imminent mortal threat. And there is no suspect here, you know the second Marco gets back on his feet he will kill again, they know this man. And of course....he does, the first chance he gets.

I can absolutely respect why Holden couldn't pull the trigger, it was a very human reaction. But it was also, 100%, the wrong thing to do, and there is no need to justify it. Holden just f'ed up, plain and simple.

 

[payn]

Marco is the leader of your enemy, his continued existence is an imminent mortal threat. And there is no suspect here, you know the second Marco gets back on his feet he will kill again, they know this man. And of course....he does, the first chance he gets.

I can absolutely respect why Holden couldn't pull the trigger, it was a very human reaction. But it was also, 100%, the wrong thing to do, and there is no need to justify it. Holden just f'ed up, plain and simple.

Right. The altruistic choice seems like it is the right one, but thats just because Holden lucked out; yet again. They piss off the wormhole aliens and that kills Marco instead. Take away the miracle option and Holden gets everyone killed.

 

[Stalker0]

Right. The altruistic choice seems like it is the right one, but thats just because Holden lucked out; yet again. They piss off the wormhole aliens and that kills Marco instead. Take away the miracle option and Holden gets everyone killed.

Holden did ultimately luck out, but Marco did kill many more people before that time (including Kamila's companion ship and a good portion of her crew). So we definately see repurcussions to Holden's failure, yes he doesn't suffer any political consequences, but I'm sure there is some classic Holden guilt bottled up about it.

 

[payn]

Holden did ultimately luck out, but Marco did kill many more people before that time (including Kamila's companion ship and a good portion of her crew). So we definately see repurcussions to Holden's failure, yes he doesn't suffer any political consequences, but I'm sure there is some classic Holden guilt bottled up about it.

Everyone should feel some guilt about killing, even when justified. Even though I think 1000% it would have been the right thing to explode the Pella, I would expect Holden to feel terrible about it still.

 

[MarkB]

As much as I can see how the family connection left Holden conflicted, and I feel for him having to make that choice, I can't really summon much sympathy for Filip and his redemption arc. He's not an idiot, he knew the consequences of what he was doing when he set the rocks on course, and he manages to directly kill at least one other person along the way of his moral quandary.

 

[Stalker0]

I can't really summon much sympathy for Filip and his redemption arc.

I wouldn't call it a redemption arc. At the end of the day, Filip did reject his father, but you also don't get the impression that he's going to join the other side or anything.

It seems more that he's given up on the events, and just gone solo, likely haunted by his guilt. But he hasn't really done anything "redemptive", just more lost. Of course, it always leaves something for the future where maybe Filip does get a chance to redeem himself, but I don't think that's the picture we are supposed to have of him at this point in time.

 

[Staffan]

As much as I can see how the family connection left Holden conflicted, and I feel for him having to make that choice, I can't really summon much sympathy for Filip and his redemption arc. He's not an idiot, he knew the consequences of what he was doing when he set the rocks on course, and he manages to directly kill at least one other person along the way of his moral quandary.

I can have some sympathy for Filip as essentially being a child soldier brought up in a cult. As best I can find, Filip is supposed to be fifteen when first introduced stealing Martian stealth tech and having a key role in the bombardment of Earth. And he has lived his entire life being part of his father's OPA splinter cell, constantly being told about how evil the Inners are and what a horrible person his mother was for abandoning him.

I mean, that doesn't absolve him of being a war criminal, but it does explain it.