The Expanse (Spoilers)

[Staffan]

I believe they meant the crew should have removed Holden from command, and I agree. I think they should have done it a long time ago, but the guy just seems to fail forward constantly. Like a lucky charm following Holden at this point.

And who should replace him? None of the others have any space tactics or leadership experience. It is telling that Amos' reaction to Holden disarming the nuke is that he strongly considers leaving. He has no interest whatsoever in running anything himself.

The only person who could reasonably replace Holden as commander of the Roci is Bobbie, but she's a guest and a friend, not really part of the crew.

Spoiler: Persepolis Rising (book 7)

In the books, Bobbie joins up with the crew on a more permanent basis after the creation of the Transport Union, and at the start of Persepolis Rising (30 years after Babylon's Ashes) Holden and Naomi hand over command to her when they are about to retire.

 

[payn]

And who should replace him? None of the others have any space tactics or leadership experience. It is telling that Amos' reaction to Holden disarming the nuke is that he strongly considers leaving. He has no interest whatsoever in running anything himself.

The only person who could reasonably replace Holden as commander of the Roci is Bobbie, but she's a guest and a friend, not really part of the crew.

Spoiler: Persepolis Rising (book 7)

In the books, Bobbie joins up with the crew on a more permanent basis after the creation of the Transport Union, and at the start of Persepolis Rising (30 years after Babylon's Ashes) Holden and Naomi hand over command to her when they are about to retire.

Which makes Holden a good first officer, but god somebody else needs to be making the decisions around there lol.

 

[Zaukrie]

The Rocinante is not under the UN's command, but is a private military contractor. They are given specific missions by the Secretary General, and apparently get part of their payment in kind (supplies, upgraded armor, etc.), but are not part of the chain of command. The military can't remove Holden from command because he's not military.

Plus, the only people who knew about the nuke were the crew of the Roci: first Clarissa, then Amos, and finally Naomi (I can't recall if Amos told Bobbie or just hinted at it).

I didn't mean anyone but the people on this ship. They should have. He was wrong.

 

[Zaukrie]

So wrong, he made it so his wife now thinks she killed her son. He was a selfish ass, who risked the galaxy for no good reason, other than his fragile feelings.

 

[RangerWickett]

I agree with Clarissa: never feel bad about not killing someone.

Yes, it was strategically short sighted, but ethically? In that moment Marco no longer posed an imminent mortal threat, so it isn't actually justified to kill him and everyone on his ship. It's a real quandary how you should deal with someone you suspect will hurt others, but whom you don't have the ability to detain.

Do you kill someone, assuming that you're preempting harm? Or do you refuse to kill them, because it's a punishment you cannot take back, and you can't know they'd do something in the future that would need to be stopped with lethal force.

 

[Zaukrie]

I agree with Clarissa: never feel bad about not killing someone.

Yes, it was strategically short sighted, but ethically? In that moment Marco no longer posed an imminent mortal threat, so it isn't actually justified to kill him and everyone on his ship. It's a real quandary how you should deal with someone you suspect will hurt others, but whom you don't have the ability to detain.

Do you kill someone, assuming that you're preempting harm? Or do you refuse to kill them, because it's a punishment you cannot take back, and you can't know they'd do something in the future that would need to be stopped with lethal force.

They were at war. What evidence was there he'd stop? This wasn't a random soldier.

 

[Zardnaar]

First 3 seasons were great, 4 eg liked 5 and it kinda limped along to the end.

Decent ending though not great.

 

[payn]

I agree with Clarissa: never feel bad about not killing someone.

Yes, it was strategically short sighted, but ethically? In that moment Marco no longer posed an imminent mortal threat, so it isn't actually justified to kill him and everyone on his ship. It's a real quandary how you should deal with someone you suspect will hurt others, but whom you don't have the ability to detain.

Do you kill someone, assuming that you're preempting harm? Or do you refuse to kill them, because it's a punishment you cannot take back, and you can't know they'd do something in the future that would need to be stopped with lethal force.

Oh man, I hope I never serve under RangerWickett. Preempting harm? This dude killed billions of innocent people. Where is Miller when you need him?

 

[Ryujin]

Oh man, I hope I never serve under RangerWickett. Preempting harm? This dude killed billions of innocent people. Where is Miller when you need him?

Agreed. It was a selfish act, that ultimately got other people killed. Then again I don't mind flawed characters, as long as they aren't one big walking flaw.

 

[payn]

Agreed. It was a selfish act, that ultimately got other people killed. Then again I don't mind flawed characters, as long as they aren't one big walking flaw.

Oh I enjoy the the story, I just think Holden is a little too lucky in his idealism. I mean, the universe finds ways to constantly spare him its ridiculous at this point.

Also, I really like the scene with Naomi and how she tells Holden that she gave Filip a chance and he chose Marco. Not only that, but Filip was implicit in the atrocities on Earth so he wasnt exactly innocent. I get why Holden did it, but yes it was entirely selfish. Also also, Peaches situation was entirely different. She killed innocent people for a vendetta. Its just not comparable. I'd guess she would know that too, but wanted to help Holden because she knows what its like to have nobody in your corner.