The extra action that (almost) never misses!

[small pumpkin man]

You know, it's about time D&D started properly respecting the Power of Friendship, it is an important genre trope.

 

[AllisterH]

Party optimization I actually like.

There was a manoeuver in ToB:Bo9S which theoretically is the most damaging manouever in the entire book, However, to actually pull it off, requires an insane level of teamwork among the entire party. Some people wanted to nerf if because of the theoretical situation but my PoV is that if the party can actually position themselves AND wait for the right opportunity to pull off this manouever, they deserve every bit of damage they can do.

 

[WhatGravitas]

I can see that happening. But "broken" parties sound a little more fun like broken characters. If a party is "overpowered", you just have them face more dangerous threats. If a character is broken, you can try that, but risk killing everyone accidentally getting in the way.
Oh, and it also means no player shines compared to the other player, a common source of frustration over "brokenness".

So very true. Plus, if you then do a TPK, you don't let innocent bystanders suffer.

On the other hand, I see that this could do for (or to) roleplaying... "just because I heal you, it doesn't mean I like you!"

Cheers, LT.

 

[smathis]

Yea, one of the most interesting thing about 4ED to me is that it really seems to promote good group synergy. Not that 3rd edition didn't, but this is kind of raising it to power level 9001. I'm sure many awesome, bizzare, and downright broken combos will be discovered within a day of release I've always suspected that the people who playtest games must not be very sneaky people.......

That's what I took away from the demo I participated in. I felt like a member of a team (even among complete strangers) just by the nature of my role and the need/desire to positively contribute. Even if I didn't care about the main objective, I didn't want the Cleric or the Wizard or Fighter to drop because, if nothing else, I needed those guys (and gals) to be around.

I'm not sure if this will stick after the game is released but I hope it does.

Sometime around AD&D, I encountered my first Chaotic Stupid PC. He was an Assassin and liked to kill the other PCs. Since then, I've seen that morph and become integrated into the game table even more -- to the point where I've witnessed entire games just become a mess of PCs out to get each other.

While that sort of game can be fun (Paranoia), it's started to wear thin on me and I don't find it all that appropriate to how I envision a "D&D" game to be. I'm sure there are others who would disagree with me on this point.

It's partly the group. And, to a lesser part, the rules. But I haven't experienced the sort of group synergy within a party that I did with the 4e demo since my red box days. It was encouraging. But then, everyone might have been on their best behavior.

There was certainly nothing holding the Warlock back from hitting me with Eyebite or Eldritch Blast. But it's nice to know that, based on the roles and the nature of 4e combat, doing so would have qualified as a certifiably stupid move. Previously, only killing the party's Cleric (assuming he wasn't Chaotic Stupid and was willing to heal the party) or (maybe) killing the only Fighter in the group was comparably unwise.

I think it's nice that all the PCs have a place and fill that role differently. I think it encourages teamwork and feel that's a good thing (for D&D).

Then again, as I said earlier, we may have all been on our best behavior...

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

Party optimization I actually like.

There was a manoeuver in ToB:Bo9S which theoretically is the most damaging manouever in the entire book, However, to actually pull it off, requires an insane level of teamwork among the entire party. Some people wanted to nerf if because of the theoretical situation but my PoV is that if the party can actually position themselves AND wait for the right opportunity to pull off this manouever, they deserve every bit of damage they can do.

I don't have the Book of Nine Swords - but I'd love to hear more of this! Can you give the example?

On topic, I love the idea of insane combos - although I'm sure we'll see "The PC's toasted my BBEG in two rounds!" complaint threads when it starts happening.

 

[Sir Brennen]

I wonder, though, if all the bonuses in the OP's original example will actually stack.

But then again, maybe the designer's are less concerned about combo's which need more co-operation to setup and last for only a round, giving more "Yeah, baby!" moments rather than "Okay, after spending 20 minutes before the actual fight starts, we figured out all the buffs we need to cast before teleporting into the room. I have +12 to everything for the next 10 minutes. As usual." of 3.x.

 

[malraux]

In many ways I'm convinced that rock band was as much of an influence in 4e as WoW*, with things like this being a prime example. Everyone gets to work together to do something really extra cool. And when you do something good for another player, you both shine.


*: ok actually I think that German board games are actually the source that all three (4e, rock band, WoW) are actually influenced the most by.

 

[Kzach]

Not that 3rd edition didn't, but this is kind of raising it to power level 9001.

WHAT???!!!!11!!!

OVER 9000???!!!!!???!!11!!!

One of the best moments for me in a PHB lite game was, after missing about ten dozen times with the dwarf fighter throughout the Oakhurst adventure, the wizard slept the dragon and everyone delayed their action so that I could get an auto-crit on it with my daily power

I know, not quite the same thing, but it was still an awesome teamwork moment. I could just imagine the dwarf screaming out, "Wait! I'mma gonna wake this sucker up!"

And yeah, it occurred to me very soon after playing and DM'ing a few one-shots, that the Action Surge power is going to be a definite favourite feat to be combined with one's daily power and that certain other synergies would be beneficial for when you really want that daily power to hit.

 

[Stormtalon]

Party optimization I actually like.

There was a manoeuver in ToB:Bo9S which theoretically is the most damaging manouever in the entire book, However, to actually pull it off, requires an insane level of teamwork among the entire party. Some people wanted to nerf if because of the theoretical situation but my PoV is that if the party can actually position themselves AND wait for the right opportunity to pull off this manouever, they deserve every bit of damage they can do.

That the White Raven maneuver where the initiator charges, deals +50 damage if he hits, and every ally within X range instantly gets a free charge and +25 damage if they hit? Yeah, that one's pretty damn sick in the right circumstances.

 

[Stalker0]

Paragon path Battle Mage or Shadow Assassin Action (+4 to attack rolls when you spend an action point) with the Action Surge feat (+3 to attacks on actions gained from action points) standing within sight of a tactical warlord ally (+ 1/2 warlord's Intelligence modifier on attack rolls for allies' attacks gained from spending an action point).

Net effect: +8 or higher, if the warlord has 18 or higher Intelligence.

Your math is off. With an 18 int, that's +2, +4 for the ability, +3 for the surge = +9!!

I also have a feeling we could see magic items that react to action points. So maybe there will be an amulet that grants a +1 to attack rolls when spending an action point, or something like that.

Once I saw the power of dailies and encounters in my playtest games, the power of feats like action surge and the elven reroll at a +2 became a lot more apparent. I mean just with those two abilities combined you get a daily at a +3 to the attack roll, and if you happen to miss, you can reroll with a +5 bonus!!.