The Fantastic Science - your experiences?

Voadam

Legend
I got the EN Publishing book The Fantastic Science a Technologist's Toolbox during the $1 sale. It looked interesting and I've got a little tech thing going in one of my D&D games with a warforged PC using some modified tech from a different d20 book. I'm avoiding laser and blackpowder guns in the game but I've allowed in things like power armor enhancements and limited jump jets for the warforged.

I have not read The Fantastic Science yet but I've got a potential PC wanting to play a technologist from it so I'd be interested in your experiences with it or your views of its mechanics.

Thanks.
 

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Caveat 1: The only reason I have experience with this book is because one of my players (Tikkarus in the Chicago Eberron game in my sig) is the author! Matt's a good guy.

Caveat 2: I've pretty much trusted him to know how everything works and haven't really read through the book myself, or at least enough to have a firm grasp on all the rules.

Caveat 3: My players just hit level 3, so I haven't seen any death rays or whatever yet.

That said, I've had few problems with it from a balance standpoint. The character himself does relatively little damage compared to the other players, he's much more of a support role. He has little robots that run around harassing my bad guys, and that are pretty much impossible to kill (hardness 10). The robots also do little to no damage, they mostly try to trip or provide aid another bonuses to the melee combat PCs. If they were more effective in combat, I'd have serious issues with how difficult they are to hurt.

The one thing that's really different is how expensive the Technologist is to play. His robots are expensive, his vials of alchemical goop are expensive. If the party is strictly fair about loot, the technologist may have problems remaining useful from a financial standpoint.
 

That is because he didn't pick the pocket ballista or furnace kindler. As for the cash issue, note the class has craft points that roll over each level gain. It depends on how much alchemical and other masterwork items the player wants to create.

Personally I love the book (I have it as a POD)- the optional rules help a lot in giving the DM alternate power sources and such.

A thread about it: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=154406 Note that it was cut off by the big crash.
 

Hey, author of the book here. Obviously any comments on balance are going to be pretty biased coming from me - though it's been going smoothly in my home game for a while now, for whatever that's worth - but I thought I'd poke my head in and see if anyone had any questions for me. You can e-mail me at jaberwocky (underscore) slayer (at) hotmail (dot) com (where "you" means "anyone reading this thread"), should you have any questions.

In general, though, Enforcer's got a good feel for it, though he might be surprised when I finally have enough cash to start using the advanced components for various devices. Those can be pretty powerful, though in retrospect I was too conservative in pricing them. It's also been nice to see that the craft points rules (cribbed and modified from Unearthed Arcana) have kept me in acid flasks and fully-repaired bots without slowing the game down much at all. I know that was a major concern raised when I first suggested the book, so I'm pretty happy with how that turned out.

Hmm, there are a few ray-gun type things in there, though. You could take them out and still leave plenty of devices, I would think, but it would take some of the punch out of mid-high level Technologists. I'd be tempted to handle it by taking out a couple of particularly sci-fi-feeling devices (e.g., Dalyrimple's lucent lance, maybe the atomic discombobulator), and changing the description of any of the devices described as being rifle-like. There are still a number of devices that don't look like guns of any sort, though, and pack a credible offensive punch - like the worm gauntlet, which pushes someone through hostile planar territory to damage and move them at the same time. Those kinds of things you'd only find in a technology-using class that defaults to a fantasy setting. There's nothing that uses anything analogous to gunpowder and nothing that is explicitly referred to as a laser or anything like that (and only one weapon that deals "light damage", the aforementioned lucent lance).

More generally, though, I worked pretty hard not to use much in the way of real-world physics in the book. I think it gives the wrong feel to be quibbling about the amount of lift an aviatronic wing can actually generate and things like that, so if avoiding real science and its attendant conceptual problems in a fantasy setting is your goal here you should be happy with the stuff in the book. If you've got power armor and the like, assume it's not the tech level of lasers that would bother you - it's the overly sci-fi feel of it. I think these devices will be weird enough not to feel like too much of a sci-fi infusion.

Let me know once you've read some of it what you think, though!

Matt Kelsey
 

In my mind, this is one of the top two books for 'technological' or fantasty-steampunk D20. We use a modified version of the system in my game and the framework it provides for "spell-like" technology is excellent. The big advantage is that the system hews closely enough to established D20 mechanics that my players could understand quickly.

Due to my player's preference, I had to rewrite the tech with a more vancian system, but I found the gadgets translated into that kind of system quite well. There's some balance issues here and there, but that's pretty much unavoidable. The only major complaint I have is that a few of the device descriptions (especially the higher level ones) are overly complicated - the weirding module springs to mind.

The expanded masterwork system is also something worth adding to your game even if you don't use the other tech. It makes both craft skills and non-magical weapons much more useful.

So in summary, a really good "crunch heavy" book that is quick and easy to introduce to a campaign.
 

I haven't gotten to the gadgets yet but I'm liking the antimagic theory to keep FS to FS "casters". And I really like the masterwork qualities as well, though I have only gotten through the weapon ones so far.

Looks like I'm going to have to finally fully read and get a handle on the craft rules for this PC.

The world I'm using is Wildwood modified to be more extreme wilderness with no native ore or metalcrafting resources so most people use stone axes, arrows, and spears. The warforged was made by an alien race and has a toned down power armor adept class (from Deeds Not Words). He was on a dimensional exploration ship that got sucked in and crashed when it tried to dimensional shift out.

The new technologist PC [SBLOCK]who is a member of the ship who survived in a stasis tube[/SBLOCK]might have access to some resources from the ship but will be mostly on his own for resources. He's pretty excited at the mad scientist technologist in D&D concept and I'm on board with the concept and checking out specific mechanics.
 

The thread I linked to lost a few posts where Matt and I were mulling over sahuagen using slimy biotech FS. Since your WW is fairly metal free, might you consider non-metal versions of the devices?
 

I was just rereading UA vs FS and noticed that the craft points are very different. UA points are meant to simulate time whereas FS points are meant to simulate time and materials (ie gp). Not a subtle difference, but even with the rules on how to earn more craft points in FS (via craft and profession checks), I like the FS version better.

I think the main problem is the lack of a serious fan base willing to talk about it. I started 2 or 3 threads like this and all of them flopped quickly.
 

DMH said:
I was just rereading UA vs FS and noticed that the craft points are very different. UA points are meant to simulate time whereas FS points are meant to simulate time and materials (ie gp). Not a subtle difference, but even with the rules on how to earn more craft points in FS (via craft and profession checks), I like the FS version better.

Yeah, the "virtual gold piece" way is easier to keep track of, easier to spend, and easier for me to balance. And you can still convert time into craft points in my version, which, to my mind, is the primary use of them. The version in Unearthed Arcana, once I sat down to adapt it, just struck me as... unnecessarily complicated I guess.

DMH said:
I think the main problem is the lack of a serious fan base willing to talk about it. I started 2 or 3 threads like this and all of them flopped quickly.

Well, that's what happens with pdf publishing. It is the smallest of the small presses. :)
 

mykovas said:
In my mind, this is one of the top two books for 'technological' or fantasty-steampunk D20. We use a modified version of the system in my game and the framework it provides for "spell-like" technology is excellent. The big advantage is that the system hews closely enough to established D20 mechanics that my players could understand quickly.

Due to my player's preference, I had to rewrite the tech with a more vancian system, but I found the gadgets translated into that kind of system quite well. There's some balance issues here and there, but that's pretty much unavoidable. The only major complaint I have is that a few of the device descriptions (especially the higher level ones) are overly complicated - the weirding module springs to mind.

The expanded masterwork system is also something worth adding to your game even if you don't use the other tech. It makes both craft skills and non-magical weapons much more useful.

So in summary, a really good "crunch heavy" book that is quick and easy to introduce to a campaign.


Thanks! I'm curious, though - could you tell me what your other favorite fantasy-tech material is? (It's a surprisingly crowded field, relatively speaking, though I've never really understood why.)

And if you could elaborate on the few balance issues you've noticed, that'd be helpful too. I have my own ideas regarding things that, in retrospect, were minor mistakes, but I like to hear from other people who've had some experience. Maybe I could suggest some fixes, if you haven't already managed it?

And yeah, I do skew complicated over simple. I was bound to overdo it at some point. :p
 

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