D&D General The First Demise of TSR: Gygax's Folly

[wizard71]

Of course not, she was a business woman who wanted to save the business she had been tasked with protecting. She didn’t do it out of kindness, she was looking to make money.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Lorraine Williams had nothing to do with the gaming hobby and often mocked Gygax. She was only involved because her brother mentioned her as a possible investor to Gygax while they were working on the D&D cartoon together.

 

[Mannahnin]

You have no idea what you are talking about. Lorraine Williams had nothing to do with the gaming hobby and often mocked Gygax. She was only involved because her brother mentioned her as a possible investor to Gygax while they were working on the D&D cartoon together.

Have you read any of the recent books on this history?

...Or are you saying you knew her personally and witnessed this mockery?

 

[wizard71]

Yeah? Is that your current take, based on the evidence we now have through well researched accounts and histories like Game Wizards, Slaying the Dragon, and When We Were Wizards? From people who were there and from primary source documentation?

Gary and others painted a distinctly biased picture demonizing Williams (and the Blumes) for many years, and now that more of the historical facts are available to the public it seems that while there is plenty of blame to go around for misdeeds, and Williams certainly made some big mistakes, the amount of hate she got in particular over the last forty-ish years was disproportionate.

Dude, those sources are incredibly biased against Gygax. Lorraine Williams only became involved with TSR due to Gary’s involvement with her brother while creating the D&D Saturday morning cartoon. That is a fact. It’s also a fact that she pushed a dead game like called Buck Roger’s that no one wanted and added to company debt. Gary was notoriously bad with money. That is a fact, but so was Lorraine Williams. A lot of the poor treatment of book writers is laid at her feet and the people she hired for the book division. People gripe about WOTC management turning off the industry is nothing new. TSR failed for a long time. Lorraine Williams was in charge when TSR went under, not Gygax. You can try to rewrite history all you want but that is a fact.

 

[mamba]

Lorraine Williams was in charge when TSR went under, not Gygax.

and why is that? because Gygax / TSR needed money and she got shares in return. Without her TSR would have gone bankrupt years earlier, all thanks to Gary and the Blumes

 

[MGibster]

You have no idea what you are talking about. Lorraine Williams had nothing to do with the gaming hobby and often mocked Gygax.

Gygax himself credited Williams with righting the ship when he brought her aboard. Williams might not have been a gamer herself, but just working at TSR means she had something to do with the hobby.

 

[Mannahnin]

Dude, those sources are incredibly biased against Gygax. Lorraine Williams only became involved with TSR due to Gary’s involvement with her brother while creating the D&D Saturday morning cartoon. That is a fact. It’s also a fact that she pushed a dead game like called Buck Roger’s that no one wanted and added to company debt. Gary was notoriously bad with money. That is a fact, but so was Lorraine Williams. A lot of the poor treatment of book writers is laid at her feet and the people she hired for the book division. People gripe about WOTC management turning off the industry is nothing new. TSR failed for a long time. Lorraine Williams was in charge when TSR went under, not Gygax. You can try to rewrite history all you want but that is a fact.

Have you or have you not read them? Far from being harshly biased, they go out of their way (especially When We Were Wizards) to be kind and cut people slack. Slaying the Dragon a little less so. Ben gets a little sarcastic with Gary here and there. Anyone calling Game Wizards biased looks silly. Peterson is always scrupulously fair and brings the hard documentary evidence. He lets Gary and Dave and the Blumes speak in their own words and contracts.

Gary told stories. Self-serving stories. For many years. Many of us loved and respected him and his legacy, and many of us still do despite his bad sides, but he spent years misrepresenting all the mismanagement of TSR as being the fault of the Blumes and Williams, when the cold hard on-paper documentation shows that he was at least equally responsible.

The factual things you're saying (Flint introduced Lorraine to Gary when he was seeking help to keep the company from going under, the book division mistreated and drove away authors who were bringing in big bucks) aren't news to anyone here.

 

[Dioltach]

Lorraine Williams only became involved with TSR due to Gary’s involvement with her brother while creating the D&D Saturday morning cartoon. That is a fact.

How is this a bad thing, or even relevant? That's how business is done. "Hey, I need something. Let me ask around to see if my circle of business contacts know someone who can help me out."

If you end up regretting who you pick, that's on you.

 

[wizard71]

Have you or have you not read them? Far from being harshly biased, they go out of their way (especially When We Were Wizards) to be kind and cut people slack. Slaying the Dragon a little less so. Ben gets a little sarcastic with Gary here and there. Anyone calling Game Wizards biased looks silly. Peterson is always scrupulously fair and brings the hard documentary evidence. He lets Gary and Dave and the Blumes speak in their own words and contracts.

Gary told stories. Self-serving stories. For many years. Many of us loved and respected him and his legacy, and many of us still do despite his bad sides, but he spent years misrepresenting all the mismanagement of TSR as being the fault of the Blumes, when the cold hard on-paper documentation shows that he was at least equally responsible.

The factual things you're saying (Flint introduced Lorraine to Gary when he was seeking help to keep the company from going under, the book division mistreated and drove away authors who was were bringing in big bucks) aren't news to anyone here.

Have you or have you not read them? Far from being harshly biased, they go out of their way (especially When We Were Wizards) to be kind and cut people slack. Slaying the Dragon a little less so. Ben gets a little sarcastic with Gary here and there. Anyone calling Game Wizards biased looks silly. Peterson is always scrupulously fair and brings the hard documentary evidence. He lets Gary and Dave and the Blumes speak in their own words and contracts.

Gary told stories. Self-serving stories. For many years. Many of us loved and respected him and his legacy, and many of us still do despite his bad sides, but he spent years misrepresenting all the mismanagement of TSR as being the fault of the Blumes, when the cold hard on-paper documentation shows that he was at least equally responsible.

The factual things you're saying (Flint introduced Lorraine to Gary when he was seeking help to keep the company from going under, the book division mistreated and drove away authors who were bringing in big bucks) aren't news to anyone here.i

 

[wizard71]

How is this a bad thing, or even relevant? That's how business is done. "Hey, I need something. Let me ask around to see if my circle of business contacts know someone who can help me out."

If you end up regretting who you pick, that's on you.

Because you are not following the actual timeline. Gygax was removed in 1985. TSR was sold to WOTc in 1997 to avoid bankruptcy. That is 12 years of leadership under Williams with zero involvement of Gygax. The failure of management and the insolvency is due to her poor management. Blame Gygax alll you want but the facts don’t line up.

 

[Mannahnin]

Because you are not following the actual timeline. Gygax was removed in 1985. TSR was sold to WOTc in 1997 to avoid bankruptcy. That is 12 years of leadership under Williams with zero involvement of Gygax. The failure of management and the insolvency is due to her poor management. Blame Gygax alll you want but the facts don’t line up.

Gygax and the Blumes had TSR nearly bankrupt in about 10 years. Unearthed Arcana and Oriental Adventures and Williams' investment provided the capital needed to save the company, plus her wrangling with the banks, which didn't have enough faith in Gygax as CEO. Williams' run lasted a little longer than they managed. She saved the company first, got it back on its feet, then made her own mistakes and eventually ran it into the ground too.

If you don't want to buy the history books, When We Were Wizards is available for free.