The flattening of Dungeons and Dragons

[webrunner]

Has anyone else noticed a general.. 2Difying of D&D as of late? The heavy focus on pogs instead of minis, the switch from a 3D to a 2D VTT, 4e's rather lacking 3D rules particularly for area affect attacks, it all seems like we'd be going downhill if it wasn't for the hill

Now with the revelation that minis aren't financially viable, I wonder how many of these decisions were made with the thought that this might be coming?

Personally I think 3D brings a lot to the table- i bought a set of 3D walls just to help visualize things. That D&D is going in the other direction is saddening.

Is there any other company that makes mass cheap miniatures (other than if I wanted to buy a pack of zombies!!! zombies, that is)

 

[malraux]

That extra dimension is expensive. I mean, personally, I'd like robotized minis that walk and act out their various attacks and powers (ie minis in 4D where the last dimension is time), but I can't say that I'm surprised that we don't see that.

 

[Dice4Hire]

I do not really see going 2D as a real problem, or a trend. A2D VTT is just easier to implement, and I imagine WOTC tried it the other way and was for some reason unsuccessful. From what I have heard of the VTT now, it is far less ambitious graphically than the original one that was announced when 4E went live.

As for tokens, they re cheap and easy to do. WOTC already has the dungeon tiles set up, so it seems easy to do Monster Tokens. As for minis, go for the secondary market. I have not noticed much if any uptick in prices since WOTC announced closing the line.

I like Troll and Toad personally.

 

[OnlineDM]

I'm pretty happy with 2D, frankly. I was never into minis - I use a projector for the battle map and monsters, though my players use minis for their characters. I kind of like minis for the PCs and tokens for the monsters - it makes it easier to tell which is which. I also like the 2D VTT, but then again I'm an avowed MapTool lover.

As for area of effect, I rule that bursts and blasts extend in three dimensions at my table. If you're standing on the ground and you want your Thunderwave to hit a guy standing on a ten-foot platform, no problem. I assumed that was in the rulebooks, but if it's not I don't really care.

I love to make sure my battle areas have a third dimension (things to climb or fall down), but I'm happy to represent this in a 2D way.

 

[Scribble]

Perhaps the demise of the D&D plastic minis will ring in an upsurge in paint-able metal minis again?

I always preferred metal minis- I just don't have the time to paint them anymore.

 

[Obryn]

...and yet there are now 3-D dungeon tiles. What to think!

-O

 

[Camelot]

Maybe it's an indirect side effect of 4e's design. Combats are much more about tactics in 4e than in almost any other game, and that means they could take a long time. To speed things up, flatten everything, so everyone can easily see what's where when and move them around without knocking the whole thing over. Plus, it's easier to get a token with the right picture of the monster than to find that mini. In my games, players just use clumps of colored modeling clay for their character.

 

[moxcamel]

For years my group didn't even play with miniatures. On occasion we'd sort of sketch out relative positions on a piece of paper, but that was only in the really big fights. Later on we started using coins and little pieces of balsa wood with the character's names written on them, but it wasn't even until 3rd edition that I ever once used a mini in a game. Even then, they were somebody else's minis. I think I have a few minis in a box somewhere, but I just don't use them.

In my 4e games, we've been using d20 Pro even when we're all in the same room, which is about as 2d as you can get.

As someone else said, 3D is expensive. 3D minis are expensive to produce, 3D software is expensive to develop. "Pog" style minis are cheaper to produce, and quite frankly I think that's all a lot of gamers want. Most of this game happens in your head. Minis and counters are just there to take care of the "meta."

 

[Quickleaf]

You mean besides Legos?

There actually was a recent thread posing this very question:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-discussion/299631-d-d-miniatures-alternative.html

Also you might check out this UK prepainted minis maker (~$3.33/fig in a set):
em4miniatures Fantasy

Finally, you could ditch minis altogether and go a DIY cheap route, for example:
NewbieDM Tutorial – Counters, Tokens, or Pogs www. Newbie DM .com

 

[TikkchikFenTikktikk]

...and yet there are now 3-D dungeon tiles. What to think!

-O

Actually, neither the Essentials Master Sets nor the recent, and more tradition, Ice set contained 3D tiles.

And thank goodness.

The 3D tiles were terrible. They didn't match the scale of the figs or the other tiles and took up too much of a sheet that could have been used for many more 2D tiles.

I hope 3D tiles are gone for good.