The fragility of heroic-tier characters

[CapnZapp]

A PC got killed in my game last week. 6 level 2 PCs went into the ankheg lair, expecting 1 ankheg. There were 3 ankhegs (level 3 elites I gave 1/2 hp, 50 each AIR). The ankhegs did well on init and blasted away with acid blast, taking down most of the PCs' front line. Then they were grabbing and scuttling, doing continuous acid damage, spending APs, blasting again when bloodied, and just generally chewing up the PCs. When the Leader (Bard) ran out of heals and the ankhegs were scuttlin off with 2 dying PCs in their jaws, it looked grim. 1 PC managed to get a healing potion to a dying PC and recharge her, the other PC died. The ankheg was scurrying off with the corpse but the PCs chased after it, eventually it dropped the body to escape. They're going to try to get hiim raised on Sunday.

There are a few monsters that consistently perform better than their level indicates. The Ankheg is one of them (the Needledrake Swarm is another).

Don't judge the PCs from an encounter with one of these (very probably under-leveled) critters.

 

[Rechan]

What level do you think an ankheg should be?

Despite the potency of their abilities, I think they have few HP (for an elite) and not a big attack bonus.

 

[Jack99]

It shouldn't really be another level, just deal less damage.

EDIT: Meant the drake. And the Ankheg has 100 hit points, that's actually more than it should have. It should have 84 as a lurker.

 

[S'mon]

Take my first adventure, for example. I took the 3E module Vault of Larin Karr (from Necromancer Games) and converted and embellished it a bit.

That meant that the four (4) player characters were tasked with evicting a complete fort manned by twenty thugs or so, and with a squad of professional Hobgoblin soldiers in the basement.

Me too! I'm running 4e Vault of Larin Karr right now!
We started at 1st level, likewise. I opened up with a hobgoblin raid on Pembrose though, which resulted in 9-10 dead hobgoblins, including their Warcaster (replacing the half-orc Cleric). I used Hobgoblin Grunts for most of the War-1s, sprinkling in Soldiers and Archers as veterans/leaders.

Don't suppose you have an e-copy of your VoLK monster stats etc you could PM me?

 

[S'mon]

It shouldn't really be another level, just deal less damage.

EDIT: Meant the drake. And the Ankheg has 100 hit points, that's actually more than it should have. It should have 84 as a lurker.

My 50-hp ankhegs seemed to work well, though the PCs had trouble focusing fire in the constrained ankheg warrens. I think if anything was OTT it was the continuous acid damage, taking 5/round is very nasty on 2nd level PCs.

Yesterday the PCs fought a non-elite regular troll with full hp, backed up by a full hp Orc Raider and 2 Orc Warriors. He nearly killed 2 PCs, but it was a bit of a slog. I'm generally finding that full-hp creatures are often tedious, especially if they have a defense like regeneration, insubstantial, or Soldier-type AC.

 

[Jack99]

My 50-hp ankhegs seemed to work well, though the PCs had trouble focusing fire in the constrained ankheg warrens. I think if anything was OTT it was the continuous acid damage, taking 5/round is very nasty on 2nd level PCs.

Yesterday the PCs fought a non-elite regular troll with full hp, backed up by a full hp Orc Raider and 2 Orc Warriors. He nearly killed 2 PCs, but it was a bit of a slog. I'm generally finding that full-hp creatures are often tedious, especially if they have a defense like regeneration, insubstantial, or Soldier-type AC.

Aye. I should have been more clear. I meant that by the book, a 3rd level elite lurker (with the CON that the Ankheg has) should have 84 hit points. Since it is one of those (few) monsters that seem a bit out of whack with averages, giving less hit points is a good way of balancing things.

 

[Jan van Leyden]

Hey, you guys killing your girlfriends or wifes character? Do you think you might be overcompensation to avoid any accusations of favoritism?

Naah, it's just that my beloved wife tends to roll like bad luck incarnate. It's only after having her character surviving through some crucial moment that her luck kicks in.

When her halfling rogue (3e) survived a 9th level fireball while being 3rd level, she walked away with a rather ugly scar. From that day onward Lady Luck smiled on her character.

 

[OchreJelly]

Holy cow guys. Are we even playing the same dang game? My group just finished up Pyramid of Shadows this Wednesday and here is an email the DM sent out after wards:

Wow, that's quite a tally. I'm actually even more surprised by your results which seem against the norm to me. Our heroic tier (and early paragon) hasn't seen much PC death (only 1). I can't really speak for you but I know for our group they are very tactical.

The defender is very good at holding focus. The group tends to focus fire, and the cleric is very much front-loaded as a dedicated heal build. He almost never runs out of a heal option in a fight, and few PCs dip into bloodied for long. The mage is loaded with status effect powers which he uses to very good effect. We are a pretty balanced group, with 1 leader, 1 defender, 1 controller and 2 strikers

I have been running mostly modules (although I skipped H3) with some encounter changes, but not much... In fact, lately I've been going over-budget on encounters to create more challenge.

I'd be curious to know what's different. Party make-up? Encounter design? Bad dice rolls etc.

 

[ferratus]

3 characters have died in our group. All wizards.

The first wizard died because he tried to fend off three non minion hobgoblins by himself.

The second wizard died because the healer and fighter went off into the next room chasing a chain devil and a warlock teleported away while two tiefling lurkers carved up the wizard.

The third wizard died because he refused to hand over the portal key to Modra in "Shadows of Umbraforge". Modra rolled two 20's with his dual attack, and that was the end of him.

I killed two of the wizards as a DM, and I was the player who died as a wizard with Modra.