The frakkin X-Mas Tree Effect: How to minimize it's impact in play?

[Kaisoku]

Ugh... the "cloak of resistance" was the worst culprit. With others, you could at least describe the effects... bark-like skin, an invisible force protecting your vitals, fire effects on your blade, etc.
That cloak had to simultaneously make you faster, hardier and mentally fortified... all without the other normal things that come with it (initiative, hitpoints or mental skills/magic).
What does the cloak do? Is there a little angel that pushed you out of the way? Did it absorb some of the effects.. from poisons to fireballs to mind controlling spells? It's like it's assumed that everybody should just kind of ignore that fact and go on their merry way with a nice blanket +5 to all saves.

Anyways...
As for the other side of the spectrum (what to do with magic items to make them cool again), here's some ideas I've been thinking for weapons:

Instead of just tacking on more damage, add more effects. Let a Firetongue sword cause a Burn effect. Let an Icebrand cause staggered-like conditions. Let a Lightning Rod cause nauseated sensations.
Instead of "what flavour of 1d6 damage bonus do you have", each weapon will feel unique and give the player a new tactical option in combat.

This makes getting a "magic sword" far more memorable and unique, and you are willing to keep it around even if you have something else that is usually better: because you never know when you want to set something on fire, or make someone unable to cast spells, etc.

The "golf bag" syndrome was only a problem because it was a list of artificial necessities, not because it was a list of varied options. Having a golf bag of tools is actually fun in gameplay... just look at the wizard.

 

[Psion]

There are two ends to this problem: supply and demand.

One the supply end, one of the biggest things I did in 3.5 was to nix the idea you could buy any item (under the GP limit) in any city. I randomized the items that vendors had on hand and/or makers could craft.

My players were sufficiently shy of XP loss under 3.5 that was sufficient. Under pathfinder, more might be needed.

I do like the Trailblazer AP rules (more than HP in APG) and think it's a useful step towards working the other end of the problem, namely the "demand" end, as you'll be better able to make those important saving throws against your weak save.

 

[Votan]

People love to hold up the One Ring, Sting, Elric’s Sword, and other examples from fiction as justification for their availability. Yet most of the time, magic items don’t work in-game like their fictional counterparts.

Magic items being sources of great mystery and power would be fine. But you see the disposable items as well as the Christmas tree effect in modern D&D games. Stormbringer was unique and a great item (and clearly helped define Elric). I think I'd like a system where items grew in power with character level (like the one ring being based on the power of the wielder) so that a single potent item could last a career.

 

[Anguish]

My advice is that you should ask your players what they want. Just because you abhor a portion of the mechanics that make of 3.5e and PFRPG doesn't mean your players do.

Personally, I wouldn't be very enthused by a campaign where my character had one important and legendary magic item like a sword. It makes the sword more important and the character less so. I'd rather have a collection of nameless supporting items that make my character impressive. Sure, the occasional neat thing like an intelligent weapon might be neat, but it's just that... occasional. I don't want the One True Ring, or Elric's sword, or Drizzt's or any of that. I don't want to play Conan the Nude Guy With One Posession and a Loincloth.

But that's my counterpoint. Your players may feel as you do, or somewhere between the two viewpoints.

 

[Glade Riven]

Just thought of something...

What about mixing "cursed" and "magical" item effects? You get a bonus for one thing, but there is a penalty involved as well. Say, a belt of giant's strength gives the typical +2 to STR, but it also gives a -2 to dex. Or a cloak of charisma that gives you a bonus, but it also changes your gender.

 

[Wolf72]

1. Be happy with your +1 longsword and call it good? Make sure everyone is good with the idea of rare magic item game.

sure the items build up after a long career/campaign, but my brother and friend (DM's as a kid) would routinely destroy, steal etc ... but those were 1e days. One adventure (iirc was a published one) had a pool of water that drained the magic out of items ... my Elf fighter's +2 TH sword and +2 longsword were now just regular items!! The rust monster is your friend.

2. bring in other item qualities? Like from Green Ronin's Black company setting, or something simpler like the Mastercraft (get a +2 instead of +1) items from WoT setting.

Seriously though, a Masterwork-Masterpiece weapon or armor can very very cool and more desirable than a magic item.

3. Have a magic-radiation effect ... to many items and to much power can cause issues? Bring in a madness type rating, like the one used in WoT (Wheel of Time rpg)

4. I really like the idea of WoW disenchanting for magical materials to be reused.

 

[Ahnehnois]

Just thought of something...

What about mixing "cursed" and "magical" item effects? You get a bonus for one thing, but there is a penalty involved as well. Say, a belt of giant's strength gives the typical +2 to STR, but it also gives a -2 to dex. Or a cloak of charisma that gives you a bonus, but it also changes your gender.

Ideally, the system would work that way. I'm a firm believer that there's two sides to everything. It would make more sense and be more balanced if magic items were more about changing you than making you better.

 

[bouncyhead]

1. Severely restrict the amount of magic in your world. No 'magic shops', no shopping lists. Magic is only gained as treasure (and then rarely) or purchased at quite eye-watering expense from the random rag-bag of items available in big cities (or stolen/crafted to order which is also prohibitively expensive).

2. Make your own determination as to what will challenge your adventurers.

 

[Azgulor]

My advice is that you should ask your players what they want. Just because you abhor a portion of the mechanics that make of 3.5e and PFRPG doesn't mean your players do.

Personally, I wouldn't be very enthused by a campaign where my character had one important and legendary magic item like a sword. It makes the sword more important and the character less so. I'd rather have a collection of nameless supporting items that make my character impressive. Sure, the occasional neat thing like an intelligent weapon might be neat, but it's just that... occasional. I don't want the One True Ring, or Elric's sword, or Drizzt's or any of that. I don't want to play Conan the Nude Guy With One Posession and a Loincloth.

But that's my counterpoint. Your players may feel as you do, or somewhere between the two viewpoints.

Um, thanks, but this isn't a matter of me seeking to impose my personal tastes on a magic-item-loving group of seasoned players. In my normal gaming group, yeah, I'd solicit player input (and they'd agree with me). However, if you look at my original post, the players in question are brand-spanking new. They're learning a lot of rules but aren't letting them get in the way of their imagination. I'm trying to preserve that by avoiding the "My PC is defined by his magic items" trap.


FWIW, in my counterpoint, Conan escaping, say, from a group of slavers with just his skill, willpower, luck, and a sword he took from a guard he just killed is a much bigger baddass than somebody jackin' his stats with boosters or uber-weapons.

Yeah, I'd rather be Indiana Jones or John McClain than that wuss Anakin Skywalker...

 

[Azgulor]

).

2. Make your own determination as to what will challenge your adventurers.

After much reflection, I think this is as big a factor as anything. The "magic-item-advancement requirement" is so fundamentally tied to the CR system I overlooked it's impact. Since pre-PF, I was focused on Conan and other OGL games, I never used the CR much.

I thought the X-Mas Tree Effect was bad under earlier editions of D&D but I see now how ingrained it became under 3e (& to date at least, has been continued under PF). This past weekend, I dug up my old Against the Slavelords supermodule from AD&D days. I was struck by how few magic items the Slave Lords had compared to what 3e or PF characters of equivalent level would be packing.

Thanks to everyone for all of the great suggestions. Some of used before, some I'll be pilfering for my campaigns. Regardless, however, the CR system is going to play a much lessened role in my PF games.