Spoilers Star Trek: Deep Space Nine

[Staffan]

Moving along, I watched "Life Support" last night. Aside from the goofy-looking surgical get-up that Bashir and his assistants had to wear, this episode was pretty meh. Kai Winn was up to her usual tricks, this time taking a Machiavellian approach to getting a treaty between Bajor and Cardassia at the cost of her main rival's life. Can't say I'm particularly sad to see Bareil go, though, as I found him dull. The actor was usually rather wooden in his performances, and he just didn't seem to fit as a love interest for an unrepentant rebel like Kira.

I think that from a Watsonian perspective, he's a great love interest for her as a way of grounding her and maybe soothing some of her anger. But from a Doylist perspective, that's precisely what you don't want.

 

[pukunui]

I dont think unrepentant rebel is the best description for Kira. I mean, she was part of the resistance and as such, continues in a role to bring peace and prosperity to Bajor.

I mean unrepentant in that she doesn't feel sorry for what she did in her fight against the Cardassian occupation. She's basically what Cassian Andor would be if he'd survived and gotten a job with the New Republic.

Just a few episodes back, she was convincing Tom Riker to give himself up because she could tell that he wanted to be a hero like his transporter accident twin not a terrorist like her.

As an aside, for how long does the Bajoran government remain provisional? At the start of the show, it was meant to be a temporary thing, but I'm now most of the way through season 3, and their government is still provisional ... Do they ever get their act together and hold a proper election?

"I'll never forget the first time I saw you... that day you came to the station. You had such a serenity about you. I thought you had all the answers. It really got on my nerves for a while. Then I got to know you and I realized you were just as confused as the rest of us. You just accepted your confusion, better than anyone I've ever known. That's when I realized I loved you."
– Kira Nerys

Yeah, while I was listening to her saying all that, I was thinking, "The man was a piece of wood! It's a miracle you got anything from him at all!"

 

[Staffan]

As an aside, for how long does the Bajoran government remain provisional? At the start of the show, it was meant to be a temporary thing, but I'm now most of the way through season 3, and their government is still provisional ... Do they ever get their act together and hold a proper election?

Fairly soon, yes.

 

[overgeeked]

I mean unrepentant in that she doesn't feel sorry for what she did in her fight against the Cardassian occupation. She's basically what Cassian Andor would be if he'd survived and gotten a job with the New Republic.

Just a few episodes back, she was convincing Tom Riker to give himself up because she could tell that he wanted to be a hero like his transporter accident twin not a terrorist like her.

She has nothing to be repentant about. She was a freedom fighter. Pick any country and look in its history you’ll find plenty of examples of people who are called freedom fighter by the people they helped liberate and terrorist by those they fought against. Any of the former colonies of the various empires, Spanish or British or otherwise, for quick examples.

 

[billd91]

I dont think unrepentant rebel is the best description for Kira. I mean, she was part of the resistance and as such, continues in a role to bring peace and prosperity to Bajor. Vedek Beril makes a lot of sense actually. He represents peace and culture for Bajor, which is everything she has fought for. He has gotten to live a life she never could, but has always wanted. Though, dont take my word for it!

"I'll never forget the first time I saw you... that day you came to the station. You had such a serenity about you. I thought you had all the answers. It really got on my nerves for a while. Then I got to know you and I realized you were just as confused as the rest of us. You just accepted your confusion, better than anyone I've ever known. That's when I realized I loved you."
– Kira Nerys

Vedek Bareil also represents the forward-thinking, patriotic statesman to the narrow, parochial interests of leaders like Vedek Winn. While she comes up on top, Winn finds she actually needs Bareil’s sensibility and rationality to gain lasting results. One could draw contemporary parallels which, I think, highlights the strength of some of DS9’s writing and characterizations.

 

[billd91]

She has nothing to be repentant about. She was a freedom fighter. Pick any country and look in its history you’ll find plenty of examples of people who are called freedom fighter by the people they helped liberate and terrorist by those they fought against. Any of the former colonies of the various empires, Spanish or British or otherwise, for quick examples.

Oh, sure she does. Freedom fighters often do engage in extreme forms of violence that inevitably destroy some of the lives of the people they are trying to free from the colonial yoke. Some people feel that successfully doing so is what redeems them and is possibly the only thing that can justify the fight… but does it or can it really redeem them of all possible offenses? Probably not.

 

[Staffan]

She has nothing to be repentant about. She was a freedom fighter. Pick any country and look in its history you’ll find plenty of examples of people who are called freedom fighter by the people they helped liberate and terrorist by those they fought against. Any of the former colonies of the various empires, Spanish or British or otherwise, for quick examples.

My understanding of Kira is that while she (correctly) believes the overall fight against the Cardassian occupation was just, not all of the actions taken in that fight were, and there was a whole lot of collateral damage (e.g. bombing the home of a military commander and killing his whole family).

 

[overgeeked]

My understanding of Kira is that while she (correctly) believes the overall fight against the Cardassian occupation was just, not all of the actions taken in that fight were, and there was a whole lot of collateral damage (e.g. bombing the home of a military commander and killing his whole family).

Yes, just like in any war. That doesn’t change the fact that she has nothing to be repentant about. The colonizing army could have simply left. They could have not brought their loved ones to a colonized world. Any collateral damage is 100% on them. Again, look at history.

 

[pukunui]

I’m not arguing Kira should be repentant.

As for Winn and Bareil: in “Life Support”, Bashir gets right to the heart of why Winn needs Bareil – she’s a coward who can’t handle the negotiations herself, but even if she could, having Bareil do it makes it so she can blame him if things go wrong.

Luckily they don’t, but she does push him so hard that he dies. (And she refuses Bashir’s request to tell Bareil she doesn’t need him so he’ll agree to be put in medical stasis.)

 

[overgeeked]

I’m not arguing Kira should be repentant.

Odd thing to bring up if you don’t think it’s a problem.