Spoilers Star Trek: Deep Space Nine

[pukunui]

Do you think the Māori's would get offended? Or do you think it was wrong for this friendly strait-laced white guy to exhibit enthusiasm for the Māori culture?

These days it would be classed as cultural appropriation.

The issue here isn’t so much that the white guy got a Māori tattoo because he was enthusiastic about the culture. It’s that he did it to be cool (“got it in high school … like everybody else”). If he had been gifted the tattoo in a culturally appropriate manner, that would be different.

So, yes, proponents of Māori culture would find it offensive.

Think of it as being similar to when white Americans and Canadians don Native American headdresses.


I’m not originally from NZ but I have lived here for over 20 years now. You can trust that I know what I am talking about.

 

[AnotherGuy]

Yes, it would be considered cultural appropriation. Proponents of Māori culture would find it offensive.

I’m not originally from NZ but I have lived here for over 20 years now.

In what way is it offensive?
People often get tattoos from various cultures, Eastern or Religious scripts, historical and/or cultural art etc.
You may look at it as negative, I view it as an appreciation no different to me using someone's D&D idea from their table.
The dude was not making money off the tattoo unlike Hollywood.

 

[billd91]

In what way is it offensive?
People often get tattoos from various cultures, Eastern or Religious scripts, historical and/or cultural art etc.
You may look at it as negative, I view it as an appreciation no different to me using someone's D&D idea from their table.
The dude was not making money off the tattoo unlike Hollywood.

Some tattoos have meaning, including expectations that they have to be earned, not just taken on because someone "appreciated" them. That's why it can be seen as appropriation. You're clicking the "Like" button - you're not living the culture.

 

[AnotherGuy]

Some tattoos have meaning, including expectations that they have to be earned, not just taken on because someone "appreciated" them. That's why it can be seen as appropriation. You're clicking the "Like" button - you're not living the culture.

Religious script has meaning too...

 

[billd91]

Religious script has meaning too...

And that's different how? Do you just "Like" the script or do you live it and its context?

 

[pukunui]

In what way is it offensive?
People often get tattoos from various cultures, Eastern or Religious scripts, historical and/or cultural art etc.
You may look at it as negative, I view it as an appreciation no different to me using someone's D&D idea from their table.
The dude was not making money off the tattoo unlike Hollywood.

I was editing my post to provide more context when you replied, but I’ll reiterate the main point for you here: it’s an (albeit fictional) example of cultural appropriation, especially since he admits to getting it to fit in / be cool (“got it in high school … like everybody else”), not because he was particularly enthusiastic about Māori culture or anything.

Also, there is a specific kind of “meaningless” Māori-style tattooing known as “kirituhi” (literally “skin art”) that is OK for non-Māori to receive, but tribal tattoos (“Ta Moko”) are traditionally reserved for people of specific Māori lineages as the tattoos contain meaning relating to their genealogy and such.

Even so, plenty of people in NZ weren’t happy with Mike Tyson when he came here and got that Māori-style tattoo around his eye.

 

[pukunui]

On a different note, the double-episode’s depiction of 2024 (as imagined by the writers 30 years before) is interesting. It centers on homeless / jobless / mentally unwell Americans forced to live in ghetto-like “sanctuary districts” through no fault of their own.

Apparently an LA mayor from the 90s wanted to do something like that for his city’s homeless, much to the horror of the DS9 cast and crew.

The technology and clothing were a mix of “yeah that looks right” and “WTF?!” Poor Dax in particular gets saddled with both a terrible outfit and a terrible hairdo.

The detective is seen using a cellphone that would’ve been more accurate for the early 2000s, and the computers look a bit silly but they have touch screens! It’s funny hearing them refer to the internet as the “interface”, though. (Although it stills gets abbreviated to the “net”.)

The slang is completely off as well. (We don’t refer to mentally unwell people as “dims”, for instance.)

 

[AnotherGuy]

I was editing my post to provide more context when you replied, but I’ll reiterate the main point for you here: it’s an (albeit fictional) example of cultural appropriation, especially since he admits to getting it to fit in / be cool (“got it in high school … like everybody else”), not because he was particularly enthusiastic about Māori culture or anything.

Yes thanks I saw! See below for my answer on this.

Also, there is a specific kind of “meaningless” Māori-style tattooing known as “kirituhi” (literally “skin art”) that is OK for non-Māori to receive, but tribal tattoos (“Ta Moko”) are traditionally reserved for people of specific Māori lineages as the tattoos contain meaning relating to their genealogy and such.

Yes funny enough I was reading on this while you edited.

Even so, plenty of people in NZ weren’t happy with Mike Tyson when he came here and got that Māori-style tattoo around his eye.

Apparently it was a fad for non-Māori to tattoo themselves in the 90's (maybe even later).
Given that he was also in school, he was a child essentially.
It seems then from a historical perspective this episode then works, right which ties into your follow up post.

Are you ok then for DS9 reflecting the fad which was in existence?
The it is not about not aging well right it if was historically accurate.

 

[Willie the Duck]

I'm a little confused. I haven't re-watched the episode, but from the description it sounds like the guy was relaying the story about a tattoo he got when he was a teen that was cringe-worthy in the fiction, is that right? Isn't that our modern interpretation as well? This seems less like a '90s show has blackface' situation and more like a 'Red Dwarf episode where Rimmer recounts wearing blackface to a secondary school costume party as an example of ways he's always been clueless and accidentally harmful' situation.

The technology and clothing were a mix of “yeah that looks right” and “WTF?!” Poor Dax in particular gets saddled with both a terrible outfit and a terrible hairdo.

The detective is seen using a cellphone that would’ve been more accurate for the early 2000s, and the computers look a bit silly but they have touch screens! It’s funny hearing them refer to the internet as the “interface”, though. (Although it stills gets abbreviated to the “net”.)

If you don't watch stuff from ~1995-2000 very often, it is easy to forget just how... not yet solidified a lot of our modern tech situation was at the time. A lot of things could have gone one way instead of the way it did end up going (calling it the "net" and not the "web," for instance).

The slang is completely off as well. (We don’t refer to mentally unwell people as “dims”, for instance.)

TV writers (perhaps especially of the 90s) seem to be inherently poor at this kind of thing. Perhaps because it has to sound different, but recognizable, and seamless/low-mental-processing-required enough not to distract from the actual line being delivered. Unfortunately, that's not how slang actually works -- where you just have to know that 'drip' refers to style; or maybe there's an explanation for what 'rizz' (derived from 'charisma') means, but it's one or more steps removed, and those steps aren't going to be stated in the sentence in which it is used.

 

[Stalker0]

Some tattoos have meaning, including expectations that they have to be earned, not just taken on because someone "appreciated" them. That's why it can be seen as appropriation. You're clicking the "Like" button - you're not living the culture.

most notes about "cultural appropriation" I think are complete BS....but I do respect the offense of taking something that in that culture requires dedication and the earning of through some task and then just having it "because you like it".

That one makes sense to me.