Spoilers Star Trek: Deep Space Nine

[pukunui]

Odd thing to bring up if you don’t think it’s a problem.

I only mentioned it as a way of contrasting her with Bareil. @payn was the one who took issue with my use of the word. Perhaps they were right because I didn’t mean for it to become a whole debate!

 

[jian]

I mean unrepentant in that she doesn't feel sorry for what she did in her fight against the Cardassian occupation. She's basically what Cassian Andor would be if he'd survived and gotten a job with the New Republic.

Young Kira would have made Luthen Rael’s sunless space speech and meant every word, and present Kira would have deeply regretted it. She was lucky to be young enough to change when the Cardassians left.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I don't think young Kira was ever be in a position - mentally or ... strategically? - that Luthen Rael's speech would fit her.
She wasn't a spy-master building a Rebel network, she's more like Andor.

She didn't have issues with killing collaborators, but I am not sure she would even be as quick as

Spoiler: vague andor spoilers

Andor in taking out informats to avoid their capture, and much like him she would have a concerned with supporting a Rebel movement, counting on the inevitable massacre gaining them more supporters.

 

[Ryujin]

I don't think young Kira was ever be in a position - mentally or ... strategically? - that Luthen Rael's speech would fit her.
She wasn't a spy-master building a Rebel network, she's more like Andor.
She is didn't have issues with killing collaborators, but I am not sure she would even be as quick like Andor in taking out informats to avoid their capture, and much like him she would have a concerned with supporting a Rebel movement, counting on the inevitable massacre gaining them more supporters.

Unlike Luthen, Kira wouldn't have been so willing to sacrifice her fellow freedom fighters if "the situation demanded it." She'd have gone, herself.

 

[BookTenTiger]

Would you all mind spoiler tagging Andor spoilers? I would love to keep discussing DS9 but I have not finished Andor Season 2.

 

[MarkB]

I don't think young Kira was ever be in a position - mentally or ... strategically? - that Luthen Rael's speech would fit her.
She wasn't a spy-master building a Rebel network, she's more like Andor.
She is didn't have issues with killing collaborators, but I am not sure she would even be as quick like Andor in taking out informats to avoid their capture, and much like him she would have a concerned with supporting a Rebel movement, counting on the inevitable massacre gaining them more supporters.

It's a pretty different situation too, the Cardassians were never seen as a legitimate government and their oppression was more overt, so there was no real need to foment pockets of rebellion.

 

[billd91]

It's a pretty different situation too, the Cardassians were never seen as a legitimate government and their oppression was more overt, so there was no real need to foment pockets of rebellion.

Foment a feeling of opposition to Cardassian colonization, true. But considering the power differential and ability to surveil, fomenting actual ACTION from recruiting to carrying out operations would have been pretty tough. Powerful states with sophisticated surveillance capabilities are extremely dangerous to rebel against.

 

[jian]

I don't think young Kira was ever be in a position - mentally or ... strategically? - that Luthen Rael's speech would fit her.
She wasn't a spy-master building a Rebel network, she's more like Andor.

She didn't have issues with killing collaborators, but I am not sure she would even be as quick as

Spoiler: vague andor spoilers

Andor in taking out informats to avoid their capture, and much like him she would have a concerned with supporting a Rebel movement, counting on the inevitable massacre gaining them more supporters.

True, but she’d have agreed with the sentiments and spoken them for herself.

“I have made my mind a sunless place… I am doomed to fight my enemy with his own weapons… I burn my decency for a sunrise I will never see. What do I sacrifice? Everything!”

A lot of that would have been Nerys being a teenager and having no real hope of ever overthrowing the Cardassians. The adult Kira is well over all that but is quite cynical about making the peace work - but if it fails, it won’t be because of her.

 

[pukunui]

I enjoyed both “Heart of Stone” (Odo is tested by the female Founder) and “Destiny” (Sisko starts to believe maybe he is the Emissary).

 

[jian]

Rewatched Past Tense this evening, the first time in nearly thirty years. And it’s held up very well - and it’s impressively prescient to the point of being depressing about current events. No, we don’t know how we let things get so bad, but we undoubtedly have.

The two main things the story doesn’t get right are basically the same thing - the writers were in the early years of the Internet and so couldn’t understand how universal and infiltrated into everything we do it would become. So the Internet of 2024 in Past Tense is basically a version of a teletext information service like Ceefax, with text and channels, with video phone capacity, rather than what it actually is like in our era.

This also means that if Sanctuary Districts existed now (and honestly they’re rather altruistic compared to what homeless services look like in the US and elsewhere) then we would already all know about them thanks to the Internet and social media. We would already be polarised in our opinions about them, and the Bell Riots would probably therefore not be the wake up moment they were in the Star Trek timeline.