The gaming/fiction disparity, or "Why are dark elves cliche?"

[Clueless]

Bingo! I think you're got it right- the Underdark is pretty lame IMO too. Its just TOO unbelievable that there are that many thriving civilizations underground, which is for all intents and purposes, pretty desolate.

Read The Descent, by Jeff Long. It will permanently change your view of the Underdark and just how nasty it can get down there... I strongly recommend this one for that reason, and because it's a pretty darned good read as well.

 

[billd91]

Also, D&D dark elves were originally presented as the embodiment of a purely evil race more powerful than elves, humans or dwarves, and kept in check only through the alliance of the surface dwellers. Then along comes Drizz't, the 'dark elf with a heart of gold', and every munchkin power-gamer in the world says 'I'm a drow, but a good one, cast out from the Underdark. I get to keep all the perqs and suffer none of the drawbacks.' .

You can't peg all the blame on RAS and Drizzt. People were playing drow like that since the Unearthed Arcana book came out for 1st edition and that pre-dated the Drizzt books.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

You can't peg all the blame on RAS and Drizzt. People were playing drow like that since the Unearthed Arcana book came out for 1st edition and that pre-dated the Drizzt books.

Fair enough. I played with the same group pretty much all through high school (1st Ed.), and having survived G/D/Q we weren't exactly big fans of the drow. By the time I was playing in college, though, people weren't playing drow because of Unearthed Arcana -- most of them were new to RPGs and were drawn to the dark elfs because of the fiction.

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

I really enjoyed Salvators books. Them and Dragonlance got me into DnD in the first place.

Nowadays I'd agree with some of the other posters. Don't like drow, it's partly a case of irritating players. Combined with the whole Black = Evil and sex kitten schtick. It's just a too much for my brain.

Ours 'special player' was also called Paul - 'Katana Paul' has a much better ring to it... I smell nickname theft in the air.


Going to be interesting if that Drizzt movie ever gets agreed. Do we get Drizz't played by Chris Rock or will it look like the Black and White minstrel show/travesty?

 

[reanjr]

Steps are actually being taken to remedy this somewhat. Take a look at drow in Eberron; they're actually pretty different from drow in Forgotten Realms. They don't live underground (at least, I don't think so), they aren't irredeemably evil (insular and distrustful of outsiders, yes; evil, no), and they actually have the most advanced civilization on the entire continent of Xen'drik. They also aren't referred to as 'dark elves'; they are drow, a somewhat related but basically separate species from elves. Oh, and there's also no Llolth/spider fetish.

The best thing Eberron did with Dark Elves is make them unreasonable for players to use for their characters.

 

[reanjr]

Well, except for the Svartalfar of Norse mythology. Sometimes referred to as Trow, which when spoken can also sound a lot like Drow. Gygax definitely borrowed a lot of concepts from mythology and "dark elves" are not all that unique.

Dark Elves are the subject of much debate amongst those who study Norse mythology. They are often considered to be Dwarves. And they are not black (that I can remember), but live underground, hence the Dark.

 

[reanjr]

Um, Tolkien had dark elves in his mythology, too... anyone remember Eol from the Silmarillion? He is described as a "tall elf, dark and grim, of the kindred of the Sindarin" and is quite evil, as I recall.

Dark elves/drow weren't dredged up out of nowhere, as others have noted, and I find it interesting that Tolkien had them too.

--The Sigil

Eol was not dark in color. He was referred to as the Dark Elf because he lived in darkness is a deep forest. He was not really that evil either just a bit overprotective and domineering of his wife who basically kidnapped his son from him (and broke her vows to him). He just wanted the freedom to live life as he saw fit and not under the dictates of a king cowering in a hidden valley. And he certainly wasn't anything akin to a different race (he was related to King Thingol).

His son, Maeglin, on the other hand, might be considered evil "a dark seed of evil was sown," but I think it more referred to the evil that would be brought to Gondolin rather than the boy himself.

What tolkien did have was the kingdom of Nargothrond, founded by Finrod Felagund (Cave-hewer). It was a kingdom of underground Noldorim (elves who had dark features, meaning black hair and dark eyes, not black skin). These are Tolkien's dark elves. It's taken almost directly from certain myths about the Svartalfin of the Norse who, like the Noldor, were great craftsmen.

Tolkien used the term dark elf or Avari to refer to those elves that had never seen the light of the trees of Valinor. Again, nothing to do with different races of elves or evil.

So, as you can see, dark-skinned, underground, evil elves split off from the others are still all stolen from D&D.

 

[Zakter]

It's because dark elf chicks look hot in lingere.




I'm pretty sure I'm not kidding, too.

I couldn't agree more with that statement. You should start a post your hot Dark Elf picture thread

 

[Zakter]

I couldn't agree more with that statement. You should start a post your hot Dark Elf picture thread

 

[Buttercup]

I've had the same experience with ninjas and samurai, too.

See, this is why I'm allergic to oriental settings. My players are all so sane and normal, but I'm afraid that if I allowed ninja something annoying would happen. Drow, ninja and a few other archetypes all strike me as being...I dunno...middle school-ish, I guess.