D&D 5E (2024) The Great Wizard Extinction.

[FrogReaver]

I wasn't making an argument tgat a wizard shoukd take command via nagic initiate cleric.

Right, but you did argue that Magic Initiate was an S tier feat, etc.

I would take bless before I did that as wizards have similar enough spells to command. Eg sone sort of wisdom targeting disabling spell.

The key difference for me is the lack of concentration for command.

 

[Zardnaar]

Right, but you did argue that Magic Initiate was an S tier feat, etc.


The key difference for me is the lack of concentration for command.

Tashas can last longer tgan one round and prone.

I don't think magic initiate is S tier. What I take depends on class, subclass, goals etc. Or if DMs being hardass about 2014 back grounds

For a Druid for example want something that targets wisdom saves eg tashas or command. Warlock something upcastable not shield. Chromatic Orb on something that lacks blasting but can paralyze.

So it depends. I see a lot of people wasting spell slots on shield when they don't need to.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Ok so you started by talking about Bless and how it only changes one attack in 8 and a Cleric was better using a Cantrip or attacking. I didn't think that is true and illustrated why with numbers, now it seems you don't either since you are saying Bless is a good spell.

The real thing I disagree with is the following
"Which more or less nullifies any benefit gained by bless offensively if cast at a level 1 spell ....what could a different spell (or cantrip or attack) have done for the party instead."

Yes. Note the more or less there.
And I only added cantrip or attack in parentheses. A different spell is what my main line of thinking was.

I illustrated, with an example, what an attack could have done instead and it was not as much damage as it would have been with a Cantrip or an attack.

You cherry picked a very extreme example. With extra high AC. And even then it was just 10 more damage on average over 3 rounds if in that case, where I certainly would not use an attack against AC instead.

I never intended to get into an arguement about whether Bless was better than Spirit Guardians or Command, because it isn't.

Then why did you jump on my statement. Take the part in parentheses and then find an exteme example to halfway disprove it.

Instead you could have thought that the parts in parentheses are used if the example favours using those two. Bless would still be better. But not as much...

 

[FrogReaver]

And it’s that good I consider the various magic initiate feats as S tier.

…
I don't think magic initiate is S tier.
…

Please explain

Tashas laughter is an origin feat away if you care enough.

Then there’s this particular gem where you imply that magic initiate for Tasha’s laughter can be obtained trivially without paying a big price.

Want to explain this one as well?

 

[Zardnaar]

Please explain



Then there’s this particular gem where you imply that magic initiate for Tasha’s laughter can be obtained trivially without paying a big price.

Want to explain this one as well?

Typo. Magic Initiate is an S tier feat. Alert would be another one.

If you want a specific spell if you really really want it you can get it.

Original conversation diverged a bit as shield (on a cleric) started to get compared to bless.

Its a bad example imho. Its an option sure but I don't think a typical cleric would do that.

For example assume a cleric decides to take MI:Wizard. Is shield the right spell to take?

Jump+ spiritual guardians for example is funny.

Reverse it a Wizard takes MI: Cleric. I probably wouldn't pick command I might pick bless though.

In all cases ymmv. Cleric+ shield can be done. I don't think its typical. Its a bad comparison.

 

[Not a Decepticon]

The ideal usage of bless is to have a non-caster, or very limited caster, cast it to fill their otherwise unused concentration slot, AND to precast it just before the combat starts.

Bless is great on a Monk, but then again, so is Hunter's Mark.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Typo. Magic Initiate is an S tier feat. Alert would be another one.

If you want a specific spell if you really really want it you can get it.

Original conversation diverged a bit as shield (on a cleric) started to get compared to bless.

Its a bad example imho. Its an option sure but I don't think a typical cleric would do that.

For example assume a cleric decides to take MI:Wizard. Is shield the right spell to take?

Jump+ spiritual guardians for example is funny.

Reverse it a Wizard takes MI: Cleric. I probably wouldn't pick command I might pick bless though.

In all cases ymmv. Cleric+ shield can be done. I don't think its typical. Its a bad comparison.

Bless is nice... but locks you out of other concentration spells. I'd probably pick command or maybe even healing word, as in most cases wizards don't have great bonus action options...
Being ale to heal once in a while is not the worst idea. Especially when cast without a slot.

 

[Zardnaar]

Bless is nice... but locks you out of other concentration spells. I'd probably pick command or maybe even healing word, as in most cases wizards don't have great bonus action options...
Being ale to heal once in a while is not the worst idea. Especially when cast without a slot.

All viable options. Its not crystal clear what I would puck as a wizard but healing word, cure, command, bless would be obvious ones.

I'm not picking guiding bolt, shield of faith etc.

 

[Older Beholder]

Anecdotally, Wizard is the only class I haven't played in 5E (apart from once where I controlled an NPC Wizard for a bit, I’ve never rolled one up as a PC).

Other than a rare player who tends to mostly play wizards, I just don’t see them picked by people I personally play with.

 

[Zardnaar]

Anecdotally, Wizard is the only class I haven't played in 5E (apart from once where I controlled an NPC Wizard for a bit, I’ve never rolled one up as a PC).

Other than a rare player who tends to mostly play wizards, I just don’t see them picked by people I personally play with.

I rarely see them from new players. Last one was years ago.

BitD there was usually "that guy" who played wizards.