D&D General The Grid vs. Theater of the Mind vs. a Mix [a poll & discussion]

[Ralif Redhammer]

Theater of the Mind, always....except gaming online now, if things are getting hairy or the distances are really key, I will just open a blank Excel template and use that. I will also draw (always terrible) quick maps in MS Paint if the players are having trouble understanding what I'm describing when out-of-combat.

As far as how much control the players can exert on a map, if one of them asks, for example, if there's a stack of beer barrels in a tavern, and I haven't already mentioned that, yeah, sure I'd be likely to say "Oh, yeah, right over there..." If it makes sense to be there, I generally don't stress the exacts.

 

[Shiroiken]

We use a grid generally, as playing on Roll20 makes it pretty easy to use. When I used to run before that, however, I always used TotM, with maybe a sketch of the scene on a whiteboard or paper. Except for 4E, I've never found the grid to be super important to the flow of the game, and setting up each combat took us out of the moment.

 

[Lanefan]

General mini-users

• How much does what is depicted on the battlemat limit what is in the environment? For example, if the drawn scene does not depict rocks or a tree in a particular spot, can they still be there based on player query? A room depicts a fireplace but no fireplace tools, does that mean they are not there or might they be there if the players ask the DM about it?

Most of the time I just draw the room or area outlines (we use a gridded chalkboard) and describe what's in it. If it seems rocks or trees will be or become relevant but I haven't planned any I'll scatter something - beads, bits of wood, whatever - across the board (moving any that land where they shouldn't e.g. a tree in the middle of a road) and where they land is where the trees are. For fireplace tools, if they weren't in the description then it'll come down to random roll whether there's any present and accessible.

• Do you (or your DM) draw out encounter places ahead of time?

Rarely if ever. Most of the time encounter areas are drawn out on the fly.

• If you use pre-printed battlemats do you end up using the same locations over and over?

I don't use pre-printed battlemats.

• If you use minis in a dungeon environment, do you (or your DM) draw out the dungeon on the battlemat as you explore it or simply describe it, drawing particular rooms/areas when and if there is a combat there?

Most of the time the DM describes the dungeon and the players draw it out, always on a paper map and most of the time on the board as well. Complex rooms or odd-shaped caverns are usually left for the DM to draw out on the board, and the paper-mapper just copies from that.

• Connected to the previous question: Do you use minis for non-combat circumstances? (like when a party fans out and searches a room).

Yes, always. If the 10' radius gas trap goes off I need to know who is where.

We also use the minis to show marching order.

• If you use minis, how do you handle things like running fights through a city or when the party gets split up?

When they split, if its over a long range (e.g. they're in different towns) I just position the minis symbolically to show who's in what group. If it's within the same dungeon I usually only run one group at a time and only draw what that group can see, then erase it before the next group comes in.

I don't use TotM if at all possible as it just leads to too many arguments over positioning and movement.

 

[Yaarel]

I strongly prefer mind style.

I like to see a picture of each character present. Hopefully each player has a fullpage portrait with their character sheet, and DM has images of creatures available.

Everything is either within 10 feet (melee), 30 feet (near, close, move, throw), or 100 feet (far).

Distances beyond a 100 feet rarely happen and are beyond most grids anyway. If relevant, 300 feet is about a bow shot and modern city block.



A grid approach that I enjoyed was a sheet of glass over a grid mat and erasable markers to sketch stuff out. But mostly after the space and positions are clear, we tended to ignore the grid and switch to mind anyway.

That said, minis and pictorial terrain grids are fun, beautiful, and luxurious for a climactic fight.

 

[LordEntrails]

Battle maps and tokens. Never really a reason not too. Even when I forget to prepare or the party goes off the rails, it only takes me 1-2 minutes to add a battlemap, set the grid and add the character tokens to it. For things like chases, a simple range map like above is all that's needed, but imo that's pretty much a battlemap.

Having a battlemap reduces so many questions. Prevents mistakes and errors, and makes things so much simpler. I don't see a reason not to.

 

[Blue]

I have several groups, and the answer differs in them. Primarily by DM, but even in the multiple groups I run I do it different amounts.

I think it's foolish to give up tools in your toolbox. And TotM is definitely a tool - a very quick and cinematic way to handle combat when that's appropriate and will not bog things down when exact positioning and terrain/hazards are not a factor.

 

[J.Quondam]

For the most part, I've generally run TotM fights, often using player-invented input to flesh out the scene as needed. The grid I've typically saved for high-stakes or complex-environment encounters.

There's also a middle ground if a TotM encounter gets a little complicated: the crude gridless sketch. Just a rough of the combat area on a piece of paper, lets me divide the arena into zones if needed, or mark rough trap locations, show newly-arrived baddies, etc. It usually doesn't even get updated as the fight progresses; it mostly just serves as a reminder of all the key components of an encounter rather than a tac map.

 

[TerraDave]

I've used grid combat since 1980, except when playing at school (it's not feasible to tote metal minis and a game mat from class to class).

And I thought I would be the old timer...(I also did TOM pick up games in school)

Moved to grids while running 2E, and almost always since. In part for "where is my PC issues" but mostly for tactical play.

1E had the most confusing approach to minis...lots of references in the rules, and various official lines of minis, but in practice lots of TOM. But then I got mini curious, then I started to see dry erase mats, in the 90s, and there was no looking back.

Yes, it can also be fun to play with minis, but then you may need lots minis, if you insist on having the right ones for the situation.

 

[Yaarel]

For mind style, most of the combat injuries are superficial. Only the hit reaching 0 hit points is a fatal wound. The half-hit-points moment is important because the hit descriptions get bloodier.

Generally the attacker describes the method of attack, and if hitting successfully, also the resulting mark. If missing, the target describes the method of evading, deflecting, or withstanding it.

 

[Gnosistika]

Two groups. One been playing together for 33+ years and the other just over 8 years - TotM all the time. We use abstracted ranges - like close, engaged, nearby and far. I guess because for us exact ranges are meaningless, we use what we use in our every day lives.

 

[cbwjm]

When playing in person, it tends to be theatre of mind, with perhaps some minis (no grid) to give a general idea of where things are for the more complicated battles.

Lately though, Auckland has been back in lockdown, so my friends and I have been using roll20 to run some old Thunder Rift modules where I've used the grid, it's been a lot of fun running them.

 

[Vendral]

The different groups, and different RPGs, I have played in since early 80s have always used miniatures/tokens. I have however moved away from grid and playing gridless with measuring sticks since a few years back.
I do play a lot of different miniature games so I have quite a big collection of minatures and terrain which helps .

 

[J-H]

I use about 80% map/20% theater of the mind. TOTM is for single-monster encounters without major terrain choke points or features.
Note: "You're in the rainforest and there are 3 layers of vegetation" doesn't map well anyway.

My players sometimes use minis. I use coins or printed off paper tokens.

General mini-users

• How much does what is depicted on the battlemat limit what is in the environment? For example, if the drawn scene does not depict rocks or a tree in a particular spot, can they still be there based on player query? A room depicts a fireplace but no fireplace tools, does that mean they are not there or might they be there if the players ask the DM about it? No, I basically just draw the rooms/walls and locations of trees and other "you can't move there" obstacles. If they want bushes, there will be shrubberies.
• Do you (or your DM) draw out encounter places ahead of time? Sometimes, when I can. Hexcrawls are unpredictable. I use a roll-up dry erase map. Note: I have pre-done map diagrams in my notes/module write-ups, but it's not a player-facing grid
• If you use minis in a dungeon environment, do you (or your DM) draw out the dungeon on the battlemat as you explore it or simply describe it, drawing particular rooms/areas when and if there is a combat there? I only draw combat areas. I've used dry erase a few times to give them overviews of fort/settlement layouts after recon as well. If they want to map the dungeon, that's on them.
• Connected to the previous question: Do you use minis for non-combat circumstances? (like when a party fans out and searches a room). No, but I will take pencil notes on my map of the area.
• If you use minis, how do you handle things like running fights through a city or when the party gets split up? They've been kind enough to not do that to me so far.
• Anything else you think is important to know about how you use (or don't use) minis/grid? I follow the Matt Colville video idea of Pythagoras not existing in D&D. 6 over and 6 up is the same as 6 diagonal. It makes things easier.

 

[dave2008]

I chose: "Generally we use minis, but for brief combat or some other situations ToTM is fine"

However, I do want to point our "use minis" doesn't mean we use a grid. I have used minis with D&D since I started with 1e/BECMI back in the 80s but didn't start using a grid until 2008 with 4e. So for most of my gaming career it has been minis w/ TotM, but not gird combat (at least not with minis though we did scribble some things on graph paper)

 

[el-remmen]

Anything else you think is important to know about how you use (or don't use) minis/grid? I follow the Matt Colville video idea of Pythagoras not existing in D&D. 6 over and 6 up is the same as 6 diagonal. It makes things easier.

This is the thing Matt Colville and I will end up arm-wrestling in heaven over. Not doing longer diagonal movement/range is just hurts my head as does the idea that it is somehow too difficult to bother with. Though in all honesty, my players still struggle with it, so I made them measuring sticks and that has made it clear and even easier.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

This is the thing Matt Colville and I will end up arm-wrestling in heaven over. Not doing longer diagonal movement/range is just hurts my head as does the idea that it is somehow too difficult to bother with. Though in all honesty, my players still struggle with it, so I made them measuring sticks and that has made it clear and even easier.

Just use hexes. That's close enough.

 

[el-remmen]

Just use hexes. That's close enough.

I find hexes difficult to draw buildings and structures on without busting out a t-square every time.

 

[tetrasodium]

There was a pretty good video on the pros and cons of each recently

 

[el-remmen]

There was a pretty good video on the pros and cons of each recently

Sounds about right. . .

 

[Ath-kethin]

In 30-ish years of gaming, the only time I've used miniatures is if I'm in a game someone else was running and that GM provided/chose to use them.

• How much say (if any) do the players (as opposed to the DM) have in describing the environment?

As much as they have in describing what a game board - sorry, "battlemat" - looks like. Probably more, since it's easy to ask if there's say, a handhold or a skylight above and adjust their plans accordingly.

• Do you use other visual aids to help the players picture the area (a map, a quick sketch?)

Yes. Player-facing maps and elevations can help establish physical spaces. And I find that players using ToTM tend to think more vertically than those looking at game pieces, too. That is, people moving minis rarely think to ask what's above them, whereas people imagining a hallway/room/valley are more.likely to do so.

• How do you keep track of distances, ranges, and movement?

All descriptions. It's never been an issue. And since almost nobody could stand in one place and tell with precision what's, say, 15 or 20 feet away without measuring it, the descriptions and up being more realistic too.

• Anything else you think is important to know about how you use (or don't use) minis/grid

I get that collecting and painting minis is fun. I buy them and I paint them. But what I want to play a boardgame, I whip out my old HeroQuest set. When I want to play a TTRPG I leave the toys at home.