The Guardian (new core class)
- Thread starter ConcreteBuddha
- Start date
CalrinAlshaw
First Post
A Guardian should be "bound" to someone, or some particular lifetime goal.
Also, since guardians often read notes and orders on paper, they should be given the Forgery as a class skill to help them detect forged documents.
Calrin Alshaw
Also, since guardians often read notes and orders on paper, they should be given the Forgery as a class skill to help them detect forged documents.
Calrin Alshaw
Sigurd
First Post
Dont want to hijack Buddah's Idea
I don't want to hyjack Concretebuddah's Idea to over detail the class.
Tattoos, obviously, can be for any leadership structure. Specific chances for healing etc... implies that there is general agreement with all temples and accord from case to case. Loyal temples would heal without question others might deduct the cost from their taxes, others might only do so if they had to or would be embarrassed otherwise.
Magic tatoos might soundlessly organize the guardians. Tatoos might be placed over the heart. Bearers of a tatoo would be able to sense the direction and distance of their brothers and perhaps the strength of their heartbeat. Higher level guardians might be able to send simple signals in this manner by controlling their heartbeat, a by product of their physical training, or tapping their chest. Typical uses might be a rythmic signal saying 'situation normal' or "attack together on the 4th beat".
The linked tattoo might also be a source of greater awareness while on duty. Just knowing that a sluggish heart beat would be readily apparent to your superiors might make you a better guard. A robber would be stupid to kill a Guardian, if he understood that it would alert all the others.
Especially since this is set as a core class I'd want to limit the super powers. Considerable effort would be put into making sure the tatoo link could not be used against them. ie the tattoos would not function at all for undead Guardians - they might even make them immune to animation.
What I really like about Buddah's construction is that it can be reduced to training, money and organization. The class can work in a magic free setting and I imagine that would appeal to governments.
I like adding spot to the skill list but I think that the skill points available might be split between class skills available through normal rules and trained skills limited by the teaching feasibility and job need. So they might get 4 skill points per level but 2 of them would be decided by professional demand not character wish.
2 skill points for anything +2 limited to targetted skills until rank 4+int bonus. (Most organizations crave versitility before excellence because it allows them to be chaotic and badly organized.) Every guardian must learn to ride because soldiers don't ride carriages -- few guardians need to ride particularly well because they dont fight from horseback. This would insure they are well rounded and useful before they are excellent at any one thing. Although the Guards could teach more than 4 ranks in a skill, they normally wont because the return to the regiment drops off. They will teach someone else. A character can still use his 2 other points (or his int bonus points) and further that skill.
As to something they can do better than anyone else how about organization and practicality. I think by running a Guardian\Sentry regiment well they can stay well equiped & self sufficient. Magic is hugely expensive especially if you insist there are no strings attached - some of the classes I've read are so fanciful that you wonder how they support themselves.
The pragmatic side of Guarding something is that your life is at risk but you are not going off to fight in a fools errand. You know where you are going to be, you can have regiment engineers look at your defenses. Let barbarians grow strong in the great outdoors and Guardians hone their discipline and defense surrounding objects of great worth. Guardians would require homes, children, holidays sort of like roman legionairs -- this would be their fame and treasure.
The way I see it, Player characters might only be guard's on special assignment etc... I don't think a long career adventuring would be tolerated by the class. The difference between a Guardian and a Fighter is that a Guardian with something to guard fulfills a definite need he is too busy to adventure.
S
I don't want to hyjack Concretebuddah's Idea to over detail the class.
Tattoos, obviously, can be for any leadership structure. Specific chances for healing etc... implies that there is general agreement with all temples and accord from case to case. Loyal temples would heal without question others might deduct the cost from their taxes, others might only do so if they had to or would be embarrassed otherwise.
Magic tatoos might soundlessly organize the guardians. Tatoos might be placed over the heart. Bearers of a tatoo would be able to sense the direction and distance of their brothers and perhaps the strength of their heartbeat. Higher level guardians might be able to send simple signals in this manner by controlling their heartbeat, a by product of their physical training, or tapping their chest. Typical uses might be a rythmic signal saying 'situation normal' or "attack together on the 4th beat".
The linked tattoo might also be a source of greater awareness while on duty. Just knowing that a sluggish heart beat would be readily apparent to your superiors might make you a better guard. A robber would be stupid to kill a Guardian, if he understood that it would alert all the others.
Especially since this is set as a core class I'd want to limit the super powers. Considerable effort would be put into making sure the tatoo link could not be used against them. ie the tattoos would not function at all for undead Guardians - they might even make them immune to animation.
What I really like about Buddah's construction is that it can be reduced to training, money and organization. The class can work in a magic free setting and I imagine that would appeal to governments.
I like adding spot to the skill list but I think that the skill points available might be split between class skills available through normal rules and trained skills limited by the teaching feasibility and job need. So they might get 4 skill points per level but 2 of them would be decided by professional demand not character wish.
2 skill points for anything +2 limited to targetted skills until rank 4+int bonus. (Most organizations crave versitility before excellence because it allows them to be chaotic and badly organized.) Every guardian must learn to ride because soldiers don't ride carriages -- few guardians need to ride particularly well because they dont fight from horseback. This would insure they are well rounded and useful before they are excellent at any one thing. Although the Guards could teach more than 4 ranks in a skill, they normally wont because the return to the regiment drops off. They will teach someone else. A character can still use his 2 other points (or his int bonus points) and further that skill.
As to something they can do better than anyone else how about organization and practicality. I think by running a Guardian\Sentry regiment well they can stay well equiped & self sufficient. Magic is hugely expensive especially if you insist there are no strings attached - some of the classes I've read are so fanciful that you wonder how they support themselves.
The pragmatic side of Guarding something is that your life is at risk but you are not going off to fight in a fools errand. You know where you are going to be, you can have regiment engineers look at your defenses. Let barbarians grow strong in the great outdoors and Guardians hone their discipline and defense surrounding objects of great worth. Guardians would require homes, children, holidays sort of like roman legionairs -- this would be their fame and treasure.
The way I see it, Player characters might only be guard's on special assignment etc... I don't think a long career adventuring would be tolerated by the class. The difference between a Guardian and a Fighter is that a Guardian with something to guard fulfills a definite need he is too busy to adventure.
S
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ConcreteBuddha
First Post
Thank you for your replies.
My philosophy behind this class as written is to make a core class that is as simple as possible. Adding anything to it, be it a defense bonus, tattoos or a bonded character are kind of missing the point.
All of those special abilities fit in a PrC, not a core class.
In short, the class is supposed to be boring. Kinda like a single-classed fighter.
And I disagree that this class is underpowered for 20 levels. (If it seems so to you, then so is a single-classed fighter or barbarian. I cannot make a core class that is better than either of these. Adding anything else would make the Guardian better.)
My philosophy behind this class as written is to make a core class that is as simple as possible. Adding anything to it, be it a defense bonus, tattoos or a bonded character are kind of missing the point.
All of those special abilities fit in a PrC, not a core class.
In short, the class is supposed to be boring. Kinda like a single-classed fighter.
And I disagree that this class is underpowered for 20 levels. (If it seems so to you, then so is a single-classed fighter or barbarian. I cannot make a core class that is better than either of these. Adding anything else would make the Guardian better.)
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Turanil
First Post
Do you mind if I take your concept (do you see it as OGC?), add in some of the suggestions given here, then do a (very similar) class of my own with it, and publish it in some netbook or d20 commercial PDF? (I am working on a goblinoid netbook, and thought that maybe this concept would fit well with a hobgoblin militaristic society).
Sigurd
First Post
I don't know if you want to use my suggestions but...
I don't know if you want to use any of my suggestions. Buddha's class can certainly stand on its own.
From my perspective it might be easier to talk about if you posted an example of the class you wanted to include and or an email where one could contact you to get it.
If you wanted to publish my bits commercially I'd like to have my real name in the attributions of the class and some idea that your publication would kick back something to ENWORLD if not to me.
Sigurd
I don't know if you want to use any of my suggestions. Buddha's class can certainly stand on its own.
From my perspective it might be easier to talk about if you posted an example of the class you wanted to include and or an email where one could contact you to get it.
If you wanted to publish my bits commercially I'd like to have my real name in the attributions of the class and some idea that your publication would kick back something to ENWORLD if not to me.
Sigurd
Jondor_Battlehammer
First Post
I made a vaugely similar PrC. One of the things I added was an armor focus feat, that let you take of one point of armor check penalty. Granting occasional bonus feats such as Endurance, Die Hard, Alertnes, and a bonus to Concentration, would be nice little add ons that would help make it a little more powerful without being unbalanced.
Having said that, I appriciate that you want a DEAD SIMPLE class. Baring the number of skill points, I think this class would do fine as is, and be fairly balanced and powerful enough to play. To keep things in this vein, I suggest that you add Knowledge (Religion), and Concentration to their skill list if you plan on giving them any kind of religious or monastic flavor. I would add Concentration just because it fits. Four skill points per level would round it out and leave it more or less as is.
Another possibility I would like to see would be to give a +1 ability score boost at levels 1, 10, and 20. This would keep with them being a simple class, but add a little umph and variaty to something which the player is already going to have to decide on anyway every four levels.
Having said that, I appriciate that you want a DEAD SIMPLE class. Baring the number of skill points, I think this class would do fine as is, and be fairly balanced and powerful enough to play. To keep things in this vein, I suggest that you add Knowledge (Religion), and Concentration to their skill list if you plan on giving them any kind of religious or monastic flavor. I would add Concentration just because it fits. Four skill points per level would round it out and leave it more or less as is.
Another possibility I would like to see would be to give a +1 ability score boost at levels 1, 10, and 20. This would keep with them being a simple class, but add a little umph and variaty to something which the player is already going to have to decide on anyway every four levels.
Turanil
First Post
Turanil said:
Here it is: my own take on the Guardian core class. Well, I called it Iron Guard, gave it some fluff text, a few special abilities, but otherwise it is very similar to the original concept by ConcreteBuddha. For those puzzled by the fact I tell this class is a hobgoblin specialty, it's because I want to use it primarily in a hobgoblin militaristic nation (like Ulruz of 13 Kingdoms).
Any comment welcome.
