The Heroic Impulse: Where Have All the Heroes Gone?

Yeah.

I really don't see the cause of the complaint.

Where are the heroes missing from exactly?

On the one hand, just because I might like to think about character optimization doesn't mean I don't also think about heroism.

On the other, look at all the story hours out there! People are certainly doing a much better job being heroic than they did a decade ago. I can still hear people rant about their characters feats in a comic book shop in between arguments about Spider man, but I can also come here and read story hours by writers both amateur and professional.


Lovely post, though, some very nice illustrations.

The sentiment might be better explained, however, by breaking it up across several posts.
 

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If you are seeing fewer "heroes" today of the type you once saw, that is probably a lot more social trending than edition-based. People are simply more jaded, and more cynical, than they were 20 years ago.
Or maybe it's not even "society" or anything, but you are now 20 years older.

I doubt you'll find many kids that don't like heroes or want to play them. Guys that stand for good, fight overwhelming odds, beat up the bad guys, and all that stuff.

But as a player, after 5, 10, 15 or 20 years, it's "been there, done that". You want something different. Maybe someone conflicted. Maybe you are just tired of being always the hero and doing things because they are right and jumping through the hoops of being good instead of doing just what's convenient. Sometimes you don't want to be the wide-eyed guy believing that there is good in people, they are all worth saving, except the purely bad guys.

I must admit that I still prefer that wide-eyed guy. I want to fight for all that is good and holy. But sometimes its interesting to be someone different. Someone that does things because he wants to achieve a personal goal. Like my Kobold Sorcerer that wanted Kobolds to rise to power. But there is only so much I can take of this, though.

Heroes aren't gone. They are just not the only archetype people enjoy playing. Sometimes you want to try something different. And that is a good thing, because it reminds you what is so special and satisfying about being a hero.
 

I'm pretty sure I remember reading "where have the heroes gone?" letters in the Forum section of Dragon magazine, way back in 2nd Edition days. (I never read it in 1st Edition days, but I wouldn't be surprised to find them there, too.)

If you and your players want to portray heroes, D&D will allow you to do that, be it OD&D, BECM D&D, 1st Edition, 2nd Edition, 3e, 3.5e or 4e. If you or your players don't want to portray heroes, none of those systems will do it for you.
 

I think you're a tad mistaken.

Given a sufficient selection of monsters spread throughout the various power levels, there's always something sitting in that heroic sweet spot. It may not be an ogre, but there's something there. If the DM wants to present encounters that are won by the skin of the teeth, he or she may still do so.

I am not saying that there is nothing there......I have thrown ogres at 1st level PCs.

What I am saying is that, in previous editions to 3.0, there was a range of monsters you probably couldn't take, but that you could survive a few rounds with. That alone pushed players to engage with creatures that would normally be out of their league. An ogre in 3e can be taken by using ranged options by 1st level characters, if they meet him out in the open. I've seen 4th level PCs lose a character to an ogre in melee.

Actually, though, I am a tad mistaken in saying WotC-D&D vs TSR-D&D, because in 4e monster damage ranges take a step back towards 1e, with the same result -- players can consider engaging monsters that prudence would suggest they not engage in 3e. This is one of the things I applaud in 4e.

IMHO and IME, of course. YMMV.


RC
 

Or maybe it's not even "society" or anything, but you are now 20 years older.


Pick up a Captain America, Batman, or Spiderman comic from 20 years ago, and one from today. Sensibilities have changed. Honestly, considering the maxim "Change is unchanging", it would be surprising had they not.

You can see the same thing in television and film.

(Not James Bond, though.....He held the same ethos in Dr. No that he does in Quantum of Solace!)


RC
 

Hi Jack7, am I correct in assuming that for you, one of the prerequisites of heroism is that the hero must be willing to take action when he has no idea what his chances of survival are? This is quite distinct from not knowing whether or not he will survive, by the way - this prerequisite disqualifies a character who knows that he has a 50% chance of death but decides to act anyway from being a hero because he knows (or is able to reasonably guess) what his chances are. I will get to why I make this distinction in a moment.

Now it is true that in real life, heroes very often have no idea what their chances of success or survival actually are. When it comes to works of fiction, however, this may be true for the characters and the observers (whether the readers of a book, or the audience for a play or a movie), but this is often not the case for the author. In many cases, the author has a very good idea not only of the probability, but of the actual outcome of the character's actions.

When it comes to games, the issue is further confused because the player may assume more than one perspective with respect to his character. At the most basic level, he is supposed to be his character, or at least, to identify with him and make decisions as if he was him. However, once the player is experienced enough with the game system and familiar enough with the game rules, it is dificult to avoid a certain author-like perspective on the actual level of danger faced by his character. An experienced player with a 1st-level PC may describe how the character is horrfied by the unnatural animated skeletons advancing towards him, but still manages to summon enough courage to face them in battle even though his every instinct urges him to flee. The player, on the other hand, may know that his character has a good chance of beating the skeletons since they only have a 30% chance of getting through his armor, he has a 50% chance of hitting them on his turn with his attack bonus, he will need about two hits to bring down each skeleton, and he has enough hit points to withstand on average about four hits from his opponents.

However, the point is this: if a fictional character can be upheld as an example of heroism because he doesn't know the odds against him even though the author does, a game character can still be a hero if he is equally ignorant of the odds, even if his player knows what the odds against him actually are.

Now as to why I made the earlier distinction: if game characters can only be heroes if the players do not know the odds, then the solution is to keep the players ignorant of the rules and their characters' abilities except in the most general terms. If game characters can be heroes if they are only uncertain of their chances of success and survival, then the random elements in the game will ensure that anyway, and if you just want them to have poor chances of success and survival, then the solution is to pit them against opponents and challenges that are more dangerous than the system expects them to face. Whichever solution you adopt will depend on what you consider to be the prerequisites of heroism.
 

Always the pragmatist Jas. Always the pragmatist.
I was trying to highlight the irony of your criticizing reliance on "many, many, many words", "and titles, with fancy and clever phrases of nomenclature", in a post that is predominately many, many, many words, with fancy and clever phrases of nomenclature.

I don't think that has anything to do with pragmatism, as the word is usually understood.
 

There are still as many heroes in real life, without a doubt. Maybe more.

And yeah, I doubt there are any fewer heroes in roleplaying campaigns around the world. Again, there might even be more.

Heroism still draws people to it, it inspires us and humbles us, just as much as we let it.

Where has heroism gone? It hasn't gone in the first place.
 

"Man cannot match the Gods, save in Bravery."

Bravery is the overcoming of fear. The more powerful you are, the less fearful you need to be.

Strip away characters' powers and bonuses and then let them fight, then they can be brave in the face of eternal death.

Superman is not really a 'superhero' at all. It's why the Earth amazingly seems to be filled with a mountain of Kryptonite all the time.

So, if you want heroes, do something that's brave.
 

The Heroic Impulse: Where Have All the Heroes Gone?
Or maybe the Heroic Impulse is more like numbers. It must be born of levels and ranks and progression charts, and when just the right admixture of powers and feats and spells and classes and races is finally achieved, then Presto-Change-o, magic, and we’ve given birth to heroes again! Yes, numbers is the answer. Definitely that. Or maybe not... Maybe it is the blending of many fancy titles with many obtuse and arcane calculations. Now there, mayhap is real magic. The kind we’ve all been looking for. And if that is the case then we are surely on the cusp of a new age of Aquarius!!!

So knowing all this and more, as surely we all do, I ask you then this one simple question – now that we’ve learned to tame magic with mathematics, and rank with ratio, and achieved boldness with balance, and have the very best alchemical suspension of status and powers and paragons and fate, where are all the Heroes?

And when in God’s name are they finally coming back?

You might have something here. Specifically, with respect to Ranks, Aquarius, and When.

Ranks:

Sometimes with all of the numbers seemingly necessary to role playing, the heroic impulse seems subsumed by the accounting pencil-fu. (Aha, at last another reason to admire accountants, with their pencil-fu). Let us agree that the heroic impulse, even if buried, may surely not be eradicated no matter how many numbers assail it!

Aquarius:

Seriously, though. This is the dawning of the age of aquarius. The heat and light of Leo the lion (or is it the forward-driven Aries the ram?) is said to be replaced anon by the cool shimmer of a new age. There is a tide in the affairs of role playing, which taken at its peak leads on to heroism! But once missed, may never rise again.

When:

...will they come back? Of course! It is as it always has been. Amongst the throngs of average Joe's (and Josephines) they are there. From the sullen masses overburdened by fear, they will arise. First one hand lifts high the olde banner of heroism, and one by one they rally to the cry, to victory.

So, in other words, it is up to you (the player) to make it happen. We live play in a complicated world, and its only getting murkier (with numbers). But as always the hero's role is to send out the beacon of clarity, through brave and selfless acts.
 

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