The Hobbit: Can someone point me at some REAL info?

[kengar]

I think it would be possible to include nearly all the major set pieces of the Hobbit in a film. You'd just need to shorten them each a bit. For instance:

The beginning is pretty good as is. Tea Party, Story of Smaug, leave the Shire, Trolls, Rivendell. bada-bing.

Goblins, Gollum & the Ring. No big problem there.

The eagles can rescue Bilbo & the dwarfs then take them straight to the Carrock (no layover in the aeries).

Beorn can help them, but cut out his trip to the mountains to check on their story. EDIT: If you have to cut a scene, this is the one to lose. Just have the dwarfs manage to hang onto their packs so you don't have to explain how they get re-supplied before entering Mirkwood.

Condense the battle with the spiders and the dwarfs' capture by the elves into one sequence instead of two. i.e. Bilbo, etc. leave the path when they see the elves' firelight. They get separated and are attacked by the spiders. Bilbo frees the dwarfs and fights off the spiders but when he catches up to them, they've stumbled into the elves and are taken prisoner. Also shorten up their captivity by having Bilbo figure out the barrels more or less right away.

Laketown is a pretty short scene in the book, so that's fine.

Looking for the secret entrance and Bilbo's trips down the tunnel can be handled fairly quickly by reducing the number of trips from three to two.

Gotta have Bard and the Black Arrow!

The tricky part is the Battle of Five Armies. Do you include the Arkenstone & Bilbo's betrayal? What about Beorn showing up? You have to have some buildup to the fight, but too much will drag. EDIT:I also think it would be hysterical to give Orlando Bloom & John Rhys-Davies cameos in the film: Legolas at his father's court when the dwarfs are imprisoned and a younger Gimli fighting in the Battle of Five Armies.

The trip home should be kept short and should probably skip the whole "Estate Sale" thing. Or at least make it short. I can picture a scene where the Sackville-Bagginses are just about to lay formal claim to Bag End and have Bilbo declared dead when he steps through the door.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

The Hobbit news linked above only came up in the last day or so, so it was good timing to post now!

As for the Silmarillion, I think the way to handle that would be to break apart the component stories and develop those - kind of how a lot of the James Bond movies were taken from Ian Fleming short stories.

You don't need to try and tell the whole Silmarillion story - that wouldn't make much sense. A series of related movies would seem to be the way to go. Forget Mini-series - with the success of LoTR, movies are the most lucrative way to go.

On the other hand, those rights belong to the Tolkien estate, and they've been very anti-film. They're currently holding up a New Zealand LoTR Museum project that PJ would like to do - using all the props and sets from the movie to create a Lord of the Rings museum. I'm not sure what Christopher Tolkien's deal is; if it's power, money, or what. From what I understand, he hasn't seen the movies, and wasn't a fan of them from the beginning.

 

[kengar]

On the other hand, those rights belong to the Tolkien estate, and they've been very anti-film. They're currently holding up a New Zealand LoTR Museum project that PJ would like to do - using all the props and sets from the movie to create a Lord of the Rings museum. I'm not sure what Christopher Tolkien's deal is; if it's power, money, or what. From what I understand, he hasn't seen the movies, and wasn't a fan of them from the beginning.

I'm not sure either, he seems to be very possessive of his father's work. I can understand not wanting to completely "sell out", but the estate does seem a bit rigid in its thinking sometimes. I remember reading an article by a linguist who was attempting to prepare materials to help people learn Quenya (Elvish). He said there was a great deal of notes, etc. that the estate wouldn't let anyone look at unless it was released by them after review, yet they had no schedule by which they would be reviewing the files. At least, that's how I remember the story, it's been a while since I read that.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

The real question is, how would Arwyn be put into the movie?

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Beorn can help them, but cut out his trip to the mountains to check on their story. EDIT: If you have to cut a scene, this is the one to lose. Just have the dwarfs manage to hang onto their packs so you don't have to explain how they get re-supplied before entering Mirkwood.

Just what I was thinking (though I'd like to see Beorn on screen). If you delete him, then you set up the BoFA so that Thorin & crew take down Bolg and win the battle, with Thorin mortally wounded in the attempt.

Laketown is a pretty short scene in the book, so that's fine.

and a necessary pause before the last action plunge -- plus you need to introduce Bard.

Looking for the secret entrance and Bilbo's trips down the tunnel can be handled fairly quickly by reducing the number of trips from three to two.

By dropping the cup bit you could drop this to two; I'd prefer to see three to build suspense (cup, dialogue with Smaug, and then Smaug's gone)

The tricky part is the Battle of Five Armies. Do you include the Arkenstone & Bilbo's betrayal? What about Beorn showing up? You have to have some buildup to the fight, but too much will drag. EDIT:I also think it would be hysterical to give Orlando Bloom & John Rhys-Davies cameos in the film: Legolas at his father's court when the dwarfs are imprisoned and a younger Gimli fighting in the Battle of Five Armies.

I think you leave the Bilbo "betrayal" -- it shows how much he's grown over the course of the adventure, and helps him resolve some of the conflict.

I think the buildup to the battle might start with a few intercut scenes earlier in the movie -- a short scene of the goblins plotting revenge, a scene where the eagles observe goblins massing, and a scene where the goblins receive word that Smaug has been killed. You could keep them extremely short and still foreshadow the Battle pretty well.

A Legolas cameo (by the king's side in the halls, and/or figthing with the kin at the Battle) would be really popular with fans; I think a Gimli cameo would be less necessary -- you've already got too many dwarf characters. Who plays the dwarves? You need 13 actors (unless you work with a smaller group, certainly possible), and if you're smart you make them all taller than Ian Holm, so you don't have to used forced-perspective shots when its just the dwarves and Bilbo. Sean Connery would make a great Thorin, but he'd probably cost too much -- might be better off with 13 nobody actors.

The trip home should be kept short and should probably skip the whole "Estate Sale" thing. Or at least make it short. I can picture a scene where the Sackville-Bagginses are just about to lay formal claim to Bag End and have Bilbo declared dead when he steps through the door.

Agreed. Certain elements have to be in for continuity for the LotR movies: finding Sting, finding the ring, giving Bilbo the mithril shirt, introducing the eagles. The Sackville Bagginses should be introduced (if only in the extended cut DVD) to establish the link to the extended DVD version of Fellowship.

Sounds like a fun project. I'd much rather see this that yet another remake of King Kong.

 

[reapersaurus]

From Cinescape.com

Movie News
THE HOBBIT looking more and more likely
Director Peter Jackson finally acknowledges he wants to make the movie

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Dateline: Monday, December 1, 2003

By: PATRICK SAURIOL
By: News Editor
Source: News Interactive, Sci Fi Wire

What a difference five years and three movies can make.

Before director Peter Jackson began filming his LORD OF THE RINGS movies in earnest, he was asked what the likelihood would be of also making a live-action adaptation of THE HOBBIT, J.R.R. Tolkien's prequel to the trilogy. At the time Jackson wasn't interested, instead preferring that if a film were to be made of THE HOBBIT it would be better suited for someone else to make.

Now it seems that Jackson has started to warm up to the idea. Speaking with News Interactive (and reported via Sci Fi Wire), Jackson has officially gone on the record and said that he wants to do the movie. "Certainly if they want to talk to me about it, I'd be keen. It would be wonderful to complete the set of films," the director told the news service.

Nevertheless, before Jackson could begin work on THE HOBBIT he's now committed to make the remake of KING KONG for Universal Pictures. That film is gearing up for photography next year, with a 2005 release targeted. If a deal is struck for Jackson to make THE HOBBIT it will be at least three years in our future, if not four or five.

 

[kengar]

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Looking for the secret entrance and Bilbo's trips down the tunnel can be handled fairly quickly by reducing the number of trips from three to two.
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By dropping the cup bit you could drop this to two; I'd prefer to see three to build suspense (cup, dialogue with Smaug, and then Smaug's gone)

IIRC, in the Rankin animated Hobbit, they consolidated the cup trip and the dialog to one and then the second was after Smaug was gone. That seemed to work all right.

Sean Connery would make a great Thorin, but he'd probably cost too much -- might be better off with 13 nobody actors.

LOL! He would be PERFECT! I don't think the budget is going to be an issue if New Line gets PJ to make the film.


I agree it would be tempting to cut back on the size of Thorin & Co. 13 dwarfs -most of whom never say a word of dialog in the book- is pretty excessive. It would rankle a lot of fans of the book to change it, though. "Lucky Number", and so on. Maybe cut it back to 6 dwarves so Bilbo is the 7th member of the group instead of 14th? Thorin, Balin, Oin, Gloin, Bombur, and maybe Dwalin (since he's Balin's brother). You can leave Fili & Kili out because they die at the BoFA and had no major roles inside or outside of the story. The same is more or less true of the others; Ori, Nori, Dori, Bifur & Bofur.

Also, you can leave out the scene where Bombur falls in the stream of forgetfulness in Mirkwood. That ate up several pages in the book. The butterfly scene would be cool, though.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I agree it would be tempting to cut back on the size of Thorin & Co. 13 dwarfs -most of whom never say a word of dialog in the book- is pretty excessive. It would rankle a lot of fans of the book to change it, though. "Lucky Number", and so on. Maybe cut it back to 6 dwarves so Bilbo is the 7th member of the group instead of 14th? Thorin, Balin, Oin, Gloin, Bombur, and maybe Dwalin (since he's Balin's brother). You can leave Fili & Kili out because they die at the BoFA and had no major roles inside or outside of the story. The same is more or less true of the others; Ori, Nori, Dori, Bifur & Bofur.

Also, you can leave out the scene where Bombur falls in the stream of forgetfulness in Mirkwood. That ate up several pages in the book. The butterfly scene would be cool, though.

Seven dwarves would be fine (if a little Snow-Whiteish), though I'd keep Fili & Kili. As the youngest dwarves, they've got a few scenes, plus I think having them killed defending a wounded Thorin during BoFA would add a lot of drama and sense of personal sacrifice to the ending.

I'd hate to lose the Bombur bit -- he's practically the comedy relief for the whole troop (though making fun of the fat kid is so last century). But you're right, that part could go without skipping a beat (especially if you don't have Beorn to give warnings about not drinking from the stream). I think this one's another scene that could at least be filmed, if only for the extended cut DVD.

Wouldn't it be interesting if LotR changes filmmaking so that scenes are filmed that intentionally won't go in the movie, but will go into extended cut DVDs?

 

[kengar]

It's six dwarfs + a hobbit, not seven dwarfs!

The reason I picked Thorin, Balin, Oin, Gloin, Bombur, and Dwalin was for their roles in The Hobbit as well as for continuity with LOTR. Of course, if you can pull it off with a Fellowship of nine, fourteen isn't that much more of a strectch, I suppose.

 

[Storminator]

If I were to do the Hobbit, I would ADD the scene where Gandalf goes to the Necromancer. He finds out it's Sauron, after all, and it's the tightest tie to the trilogy.

Would need a bit of set up work to keep it from being out of place, perhaps a meeting between Saruman, Gandalf and Elrond in Rivendell well.

PS