The Immortals Handbook

[Zoatebix]

I'm so copying down CRGreathouses strength system. Everything I need to know about carrying capacity on a 5cm by 4cm post-in note.

I thought that it made a lot of sense, actually, until I saw how badly if hurt the low end - STR 3 goes from a light load of 10 lbs to a maximum load of 9 lbs. Ouch.

Your equations may scale better at high strengths, but I think there's something to be said for the PHB's low-end. Maybe keep the PHB chart until STR 10 or 20 (which both intersect with your figures) and then use your system?
-George

 

[CRGreathouse]

Your equations may scale better at high strengths, but I think there's something to be said for the PHB's low-end. Maybe keep the PHB chart until STR 10 or 20 (which both intersect with your figures) and then use your system?
-George

Actually, there's something important I left out (since was posting this for U_K, and he's only concerned with upper-level balance). I have object weights scale x1/8 per size category below Medium, so Str 3 goes from 30 lbs to 9 pounds, but effectively 36 pounds since armor, weapons, and random objects weight 1/4 the PH amounts.

1/8 scaling just makes more sense, since everything's 1/2 as large in 3 dimensions.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

I just made two changes to address carrying capacities for high Strengths: change how smaller sizes carry weight (x1/2 per category below Medium), and use a new chart. Here's a part of the new chart for Medium bipeds:

10......100
11......121
12......144
13......169
...
20......400
21......441
22......484
...
50....2500
51....2601
52....2704

This way the carrying capacities stay sane, and the normal PC amounts aren't much changed. For a Medium biped, Str 100 gives a heavy load of 5 tons instead of 13 107 tons under the PH system.

This means that to lift a planet (Sun-dipped Superman style) you need (approx.) strength 3.6 Trillion.

Or about 470 strength to lift 100 tons (Hulk).

I certainly see you method working well for High Physical Factor games, although core D&D is, by its very nature, Low Physical Factor. So I am not sure how practical it is in that regard.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Krust!

Hi historina matey!

While I've never watched much DBZ, that equation would yield the following CR/ELs:

SS4 Goku = CR 1,650,000,000/EL 121
Sin Shenron (after absorbing dragon balls) = CR 5,000,000,000/EL 127
Goku (fused w/Shenron aadb) = CR 125,000,000,000 /EL 145



That should cover most campaigns, but still a far cry from HOU Thanos (if he is a supreme being/metaversal) who is:

CR 8E24/EL 325

Assuming, of course, that 8E24 is the going estimate. In fact, Goku fused w/Shenron would be closer to a rat than to HOU Thanos based on EL.

It boggles the mind.

Well the power of the Supreme Being depends on how high you advance your campaign. So there is no real set value, as I recall that above estimate was based on a ceiling limit of 72 dimensions for Time Lords, but of course you could technically have as little or as many as you wished or even no Time Lords at all so its flexible.

 

[CRGreathouse]

This means that to lift a planet (Sun-dipped Superman style) you need (approx.) strength 3.6 Trillion.

Or about 470 strength to lift 100 tons (Hulk).

I certainly see you method working well for High Physical Factor games, although core D&D is, by its very nature, Low Physical Factor. So I am not sure how practical it is in that regard.

I never liked Superman lifting the Earth, or moving the moon, so I have no problems limiting it like this.

Wouldn't the Hulk be Large or Huge? This would drop the Strength required to 224 to 316, a more reasonable figure. I mean, dropping 100 tons from the Hulk's shoulder height to the ground would deal over 3500 damage on average, so what would make more sense:

* Having him deal 2d8+229 damage with a greatclub (my method)
* Having him deal 2d8+37 damage with a greatclub (WotC)

I'm comparing damage he can deal under the standard system by dropping a rock to bashing with a club -- they should surely be within a factor of 20, yes?

 

[CRGreathouse]

--double post--

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi CRGreathouse mate!

I never liked Superman lifting the Earth, or moving the moon, so I have no problems limiting it like this.

...well he is Superman.

Although by DCs own rules he can normally only press about 800,000 tons.

By the way for those who follow cosmic happenings in the Marvel Universe theres an interesting storyline going on in both Thor:

http://www.milehighcomics.com/firstlook/100604/thor85cvr.html

...and the alternate universe of the Exiles (Ego: the Living Planet vs. two Celestials).

http://www.milehighcomics.com/firstlook/100604/exil53cvr.html

Wouldn't the Hulk be Large or Huge?

Large.

This would drop the Strength required to 224 to 316, a more reasonable figure. I mean, dropping 100 tons from the Hulk's shoulder height to the ground would deal over 3500 damage on average, so what would make more sense:

* Having him deal 2d8+229 damage with a greatclub (my method)
* Having him deal 2d8+37 damage with a greatclub (WotC)

I'm comparing damage he can deal under the standard system by dropping a rock to bashing with a club -- they should surely be within a factor of 20, yes?

Hulk, capable of lifting 100 tons would deal 1d8+153 (punch) under your auspices, while a Colossal Great Wyrm Dragon (weighing approx. 1000 tons or more) would deal 4d8+16...right!? Such a dragon with Strength 43 could lift 104 tons (or 20 tons by your method).

Under your rules the discrepancy between size and damage grows even wider...unless I am missing something?

Edit: Then again it does correlate between the x5 Hulk strength and damage (roughly speaking).

 

[Verequus]

Actually, there's something important I left out (since was posting this for U_K, and he's only concerned with upper-level balance). I have object weights scale x1/8 per size category below Medium, so Str 3 goes from 30 lbs to 9 pounds, but effectively 36 pounds since armor, weapons, and random objects weight 1/4 the PH amounts.

1/8 scaling just makes more sense, since everything's 1/2 as large in 3 dimensions.

I'm sorry, I seem to miss something here, because somehow I don't understand at least, which size has the Str 3 creature and how weigh the things of the PHB less, if they are made for medium creatures. Or how do you get form a factor of 1/8 to 1/4. What's the Dead-Lift capacity? Heavy Load? Could you explain it to me step by step, please?

 

[CRGreathouse]

I'm sorry, I seem to miss something here, because somehow I don't understand at least, which size has the Str 3 creature and how weigh the things of the PHB less, if they are made for medium creatures. Or how do you get form a factor of 1/8 to 1/4. What's the Dead-Lift capacity? Heavy Load? Could you explain it to me step by step, please?

I'm not talking about Medium objects, but objects smaller than Medium. Medium fullplate weighs 50 pounds. By the PH Small fullplate weighs 25 pounds; I would have it weigh 6 1/4 pounds.

Dead Lift = amount a creature can lift off the ground (heavy load x2)
Heavy load = amount a creature can carry and still move normally (though somehwat slowed) = amount the creature can lift over it's head

 

[CRGreathouse]

Hulk, capable of lifting 100 tons would deal 1d8+153 (punch) under your auspices, while a Colossal Great Wyrm Dragon (weighing approx. 1000 tons or more) would deal 4d8+16...right!? Such a dragon with Strength 43 could lift 104 tons (or 20 tons by your method).

Under your rules the discrepancy between size and damage grows even wider...unless I am missing something?

Edit: Then again it does correlate between the x5 Hulk strength and damage (roughly speaking).

None of this bothers me.

As a non-fan of comic books, I think it's silly to have a character like Hulk who lifts 100 tons, especially when comparing him with wyrm dragons.

As to what makes more sense... under the standard system, a Medium character with Str 402 (who can carry the Earth and still be under a light load) deals only 1d3+196 damage with a punch. A 12th-level barbarian could survive a hit like that, and that just doesn't work for me.