The Immortals Handbook

[Upper_Krust]

Hi all!

The website is partially up. There are still two small issues to work out, why my images aren't loading for one and some alignment problems* with the headings.

*No not that kind of alignment.

Not all of the pages are uploaded (or in some cases finished) so don't be alarmed if all the links don't work.

There should be enough to give you a taste until tomorrow though. I'll endeavour to get all the pages up by tomorrow night and sort out the minor problems.

I was going to hold off again until I had everything perfect but I figured you had waited enough and that half a site was better than none.

www.immortalshandbook.com

PS. Nearly forgot, I'll start a new thread here about it when I get the initial setup finished and all the links uploaded.

 

[CRGreathouse]

There should be enough to give you a taste until tomorrow though. I'll endeavour to get all the pages up by tomorrow night and sort out the minor problems.

You're the greatest. Thanks!

Edit: I meant to ask this before, but with the excitement over the site I forgot.

(squirrel, the spoiler tag is to keep you out -- although frankly, your Knowledge (religion) will probably result in my giving this information to you eventually.)

How do Avatars work -- and specifically,

Spoiler

how powerful would a being need to be to have an avatar that was (or at least appeared to be) a Greater God?

 

[BSF]

Nifty! Looks good so far.

 

[S'mon]

Is 1e AD&D Thrin on there yet U_K? Don't worry, I'm not planning to use him/you in my game, I'd just like a copy for posterity.

BTW as my current Ea campaign has entered 15th level I've encountered major problems with the feel & tone of it, I think this may be linked to 3e rules as well as to the attitudes of some of the players; thus I'm planning to restart with a low-level campaign hopefully using Lost City of Barakus, and just use the high-level PCs in occasional scenarios. So it'll likely be awhile before I have Immortal PCs IMC again.

 

[S'mon]

Hi U_K - just been reading the reviews on DDG & ELH - very helpful, they fit with my preexisting thoughts & the reasons why I didn't buy either; your 3/10 and 5/10 grades seemed harsh but fair. Looking forward to seeing more good stuff on the site!

BTW here's a question - how do you think Immortals-level play meshes with 3.5e's tactical-battlegrid miniatures-based approach to combat? Should Immortal battles be freewheeling dramatic affairs, or do they work with minis? Do you have thoughts on maintaining an (eg) Marvel Mighty Thor type tone?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

You're the greatest. Thanks!

Edit: I meant to ask this before, but with the excitement over the site I forgot.

How do Avatars work -- and specifically,

Spoiler

how powerful would a being need to be to have an avatar that was (or at least appeared to be) a Greater God?

Avatars cannot be more powerful than Quasi-deities (to fulfill the Avatar role). However, a deity can create 'Aspects' of itself which can be any measure of power. However, if these Aspects are more powerful than Quasi-deities they cannot act freely on the mortal plane.

To create a Greater God Aspect you would need to be at least an Elder One.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi BardStephenFox matey!

Nifty! Looks good so far.

Thanks.

There are still a few teething troubles but I'll try and iron them out today.

I actually see some of the links are not yet perfect (white links on the blessings page is obviously wrong)

 

[S'mon]

I think your conversion of 1e AD&D unique creatures to 3e by dividing hp by 4 to get hit dice makes a good rule of thumb, although dividing by 4.5 would also work. As you note, in 3e though power is far more dependent on hit dice than in 1e where Orcus & Demogorgon could be rivals, so it doesn't always work. Maybe 1e Demogorgon had a CON bonus... I increasingly think the BoVD's approach of putting the demon-lords etc in the low-epic range was the right approach for 3e, whereas of course 3e Deities & Demigods did a horrible job of statting the gods. An alternative approach would be to take a more linear aproach to power-increase-by-hit-dice at Epic levels, which you have previously advocated, so Demogorgon could have 50 hit dice without being a Greater God or whatever.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey S'mon!

Is 1e AD&D Thrin on there yet U_K? Don't worry, I'm not planning to use him/you in my game, I'd just like a copy for posterity.

I have his stats up on the shrine, but I haven't uploaded that page just yet because I don't have all the accompanying text finished.

BTW as my current Ea campaign has entered 15th level I've encountered major problems with the feel & tone of it, I think this may be linked to 3e rules as well as to the attitudes of some of the players;

Can you be more specific?

thus I'm planning to restart with a low-level campaign hopefully using Lost City of Barakus, and just use the high-level PCs in occasional scenarios.

Your PCs were starting to get under my feet anyway. I was starting to notice them.

So it'll likely be a while before I have Immortal PCs IMC again.

It would have been blasphemous to have immortal PCs without the Immortals Handbook anyway.

just been reading the reviews on DDG & ELH - very helpful, they fit with my preexisting thoughts & the reasons why I didn't buy either; your 3/10 and 5/10 grades seemed harsh but fair.

I think I stated my case pretty well for both.

I'd be happy to debate any of the issues with people.

Looking forward to seeing more good stuff on the site!

I have quite a few things waiting in the wings.

BTW here's a question - how do you think Immortals-level play meshes with 3.5e's tactical-battlegrid miniatures-based approach to combat? Should Immortal battles be freewheeling dramatic affairs, or do they work with minis?

I think this partly depends on whether you're talking about immortal vs. immortal or immortal vs mortal(s). Another facet is going to be the power of the immortal and maybe depend on its abilities. There are quite a few abilities (in the IH) that muck about with Reach and Space (for example).

Personally I think you have to have both styles, because some people like that amount of detail.

In immortal vs. immortal confrontations I don't see the battlegrid being of much consequence. Whereas with immortal vs. mortals you probably want it in there.

Do you have thoughts on maintaining an (eg) Marvel Mighty Thor type tone?

Yes...although I was saving those for the IH.

Essentially you want to trim as much fat as possible, I have abilities (some coming as standard) that help with this. You want fewer, more powerful items/artifacts (practical against disjunction). You want fewer, more powerful abilities (rather than an extra 20 feats you might take one cosmic ability for instance).

 

[Iceflame55]

Me's Back, and I LIKE what I see!

I've been bouncing in and out of here even if I wasn't posting U_K, but your review on Epic Handbook gave me an Idea on the Epic Attack Bonuses that I figured I'd post here (since it was your Review that got me to thinking of it). If this post starts enough discussion, I'll try and find the Epic forum and post a link here, to avoid messing your reports on how close immortals Handbook is to completion (which is also the only reason I think I haven't died of frustration I might add!)

I'm like you in I can see the way Epic Saves are done, especially when I examined the reasoning they added in a sidebar in DMG 3.5; but the rule on Attack Bonuses and the reasoning was weak I think. So, I decided to see the result of of simply capping the number of attacks possible to four, but kept the BAB going as before Epic !

To compare I'll post how it looks with the D&D Epic Attack Bonus on the left, the way I tried it on the right; I'm using Fighter as the character:

Level: D&D Epic_______My Idea
21st: 21/16/11/6_____21/16/11/6
22nd: 21/16/11/6_____22/17/12/7
23rd: 22/17/12/7_____23/18/13/8
24th: 22/17/12/7_____24/19/14/9
25th: 23/18/13/8_____25/20/15/10
26th: 23/18/13/8_____26/21/16/11
27th: 24/19/14/9_____27/22/17/12
28th: 24/19/14/9_____28/23/18/13
29th: 25/20/15/10____29/24/19/14
30th: 25/20/15/10____30/25/20/15

I'm not a player of D&D at the moment, due to my physical location, and not knowing how to drive limits mobility; but I've read the books forwards, backwards, upside down and inside out. It seems to me that my Idea works better than the Core ideas on Epic, at least as far as the attacks go. It wouldn't have been a stretch for them to simply to have said there was a cap on the number of attacks, and keep the attack progression the same, but I guess they decided there needed to be a strange unwieldy rule to make Epic level less appealing

I likely wouldn't have tinkered with this if I wasn't trying to avoid going insane waiting for IH, but there's my 2 cents at this time; comments, suggestions etc.?

Edit Note: I had a slight difficulty keeping the progressions seperate, and since this is the first time I've tried to show something resembling a table I didn't have any other Ideas on fixers