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D&D General The Importance of Verisimilitude (or "Why you don't need realism to keep it real")

Pedantic

Legend
I am all over the idea that STR combining melee to hit and carrying capacity is not a great design choice.
Fantasy Craft solved this problem by making Strength specifically relative to your size. Carrying capacity and dragging/lifting scaled appropriately, and all items were rated with a size you had to be bigger than to use them.
 

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TwoSix

"Diegetics", by L. Ron Gygax
But it is just no "fighty ability." The game specifically differentiates fighting with strength from fighting with dexterity. So strength should mean strength. If it doesn't, get rid of it, and just give characters "fight bonus" or something.
There's already a perfectly cromulent "fighty" number available in 5e, known as proficiency bonus. Have attack bonus as 2xproficiency bonus, and weapon damage use proficiency bonus instead of Str/Dex.

If you wanted, you can add the ability to use Str or Dexinstead as a racial or class or feat ability as desired, to support the narrative of a super-strong or fast warrior, and/or add other feat/class/race features with Str or Dex scaling. But using proficiency bonus makes level the only important indicator of fighting ability, and makes it so all race/class combinations are equally viable (from a numeric standpoint), even if you want to use the original race/stat combinations.
 

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
[Mod note--the + status has been removed from this thread, as it is merely a statement of the OP's position, not an invitation to debate. The + status is for starting discussions seeking a possible solution which take the premise on board, not for soapboxing without dissent or disagreement.]

A tangent came up in a recent thread regarding the importance of verisimilitude, specifically with regard to its value (or lack thereof) when its presence in a setting conflicted with a player's idea(s) for their character. While several posters put forward the idea that verisimilitude wasn't an important consideration, or was necessarily less important than players being able to play whatever character idea they wanted, there are legitimate reasons for thinking otherwise, even to the point of the GM disallowing certain character ideas (e.g. races, classes, backgrounds, etc.) from being played within the scope of a given setting or campaign.

But first, let's take a step back and figure out what we mean when we say "verisimilitude."

A. Making Sense from the Inside
"Hey, you're ripping off my style!" @Snarf Zagyg, probably

Dictionary.com's primary definition of the word verisimilitude is "the appearance or semblance of truth; genuineness; authenticity." Within the context of a tabletop RPG, however, we are (as gamers so often do) redefining the word slightly to refer to a world that "makes sense," often despite its fantastical elements (and quite often in spite of its gamisms, such as hit points).

You'll notice, here, that I've avoided using the term "realism," simply because that word is often understood to mean "functions as per the real world." While that's sometimes what people mean, more often (in my experience) they're referring to the definition which I'm assigning to the tabletop RPG version of verismilitude: a world that operates in a manner consistent with its own internal logic. This internal logic is presumed to permeate the game world, and shapes elements ranging from the way magic works to sociopolitical situations between kingdoms to simple issues of (N)PC capabilities. There's a reason that things are the way they are, work the way they work, and even the exceptions to these (if there are any) will function according to comprehensible underlying principles. In many cases, these principles can be understood from an in-character perspective.

What's notable about this is that it transcends questions of how "realistic" (to reuse that "according to the real world" idea) something is. Just because you have spellcasting, fire-breathing dragons (which violate all kinds of real-life physical laws) doesn't mean that questions regarding why a belligerent kingdom with a huge army hasn't conquered a small, peaceful neighboring kingdom are necessarily irrelevant. That's because both are measured by the same yardstick, which is "how/why do things work in this setting?" with the last three words being the most salient. That's true even if you (in the general sense of "you") find the political tension less compelling than the dragon, or vice versa.

B. Verisimilitude in Play
"In this setting, lightning is caused by divine flatulence; it's why Zeus is also the god of beans" -if William Shatner had tried to write fantasy.

So now that we've established what verisimilitude is, we come to the next logical question, which is "what's for lunch today?" "what does that bring to the game table?" The answer is, to use yet another ill-defined term fraught with assumptions, immersion.

Playing in a tabletop RPG is playing in an imaginary world. But because the imagination is whimsical and capricious, we seek to ground that mental construct according to rules and limits, imbuing it with characteristics that are (by mutual agreement with ourselves, our fellow players, and other fans of the game/setting) held to operate in a certain way, giving the setting a sense of groundedness that makes it come across as something more stable and concrete than a flight of fancy. And the more that world's operations, characteristics, and specifics are defined, the more grounded it becomes, making it more engaging as we're better able to transport ourselves "into" that world during the course of play.

Now, it need not be said that there are limits to this...but I'll go ahead and say it anyway. It's self-evident that anything, taken too an extreme, becomes burdensome; no GM wants to chart out every single NPC in their capital city of 100,000 people, no player wants to sit through an economic treatise as to why silver weapons cost more than steel ones, and no publisher can be expected to put out a thick hardcover of nothing but their setting's history (the Forgotten Realms notwithstanding). Just like with simulationism (verisimilitude's cousin, who keeps giving it those uncomfortably long stares), too much can bog down actually playing the game.

And the thing to remember is that adherents of versimilitude know that. Even if we leave aside that different people will have different preferred styles of play, want different degrees of math in the rules, and like different settings, the idea of "verisimilitude uber alles" tends to be something put up by opponents of verisimilitude (as a consideration in play) rather than by the people who actually value it. While there are always third- and fourth-hand stories about some frustrated novelist serving as a GM, most of the time this isn't going to be the case. Different strokes for different folks, and all that.

But what happens when there's a conflict between investment in verisimilitude and player expectations right there at the table?

C. Verisimilitude versus PC Expectations
"Just because we're playing Pendragon is no reason I can't be a ninja!" -Chang, if Community had made more role-playing episodes

Sometimes a player's idea for a character just doesn't fit the setting. This can be due to them wanting to play a race that doesn't exist in that world, a class that represents a power which isn't available in that world, or a background which clashes tonally. This can happen even in campaigns which aren't Dark Sun.

Other times, it's less about what/who a character is and more to do with what their character can do. I've spoken before about a fellow I knew who preferred superheroes to high fantasy; when I asked him if he was interested in giving D&D a try, he asked if he could play a character with abilities like that of the Flash. I hesitatingly described character builds that could move three or four times as fast as most characters and gain one or two extra attacks per round, at which point he just shook his head sadly and replied "that's not even close to what the Flash can do."

In that case, the issue of verisimilitude was baked into the underlying assumptions of the game itself. For a campaign like Dark Sun, it's part of the campaign world. For some others, it could be something less intrinsic to the character, but still cause an issue with the underlying assumptions that the setting operates under. If a player wants their 1st-level character to start with an apparatus of Kwalish, D&D's own version of an AT-ST walker except with less guns and more claws, it's entirely reasonable for the DM to say that a 1st-level PC can't start the game with a legendary magic item, regardless of that one online article swearing it won't unbalance your game.

That's because "balance" isn't really the issue, here. Rather, it's that immersion takes a hit if the aforementioned internal logic of the setting is flouted; if legendary magic items are rare, expensive, and subject to being stolen if by the local thieves' guild if they're not easily concealable, then it's going to be rather awkward to explain why that 1st-level character reliably has one (especially if there's an alternative magic item of lower power and less obtrusiveness that can achieve whatever effect they're looking for, such as gauntlets of ogre power or boots of striding and springing). While it's not inconceivable [note to self: work a Princess Bride joke in here before posting] that there will be occasional lapses where an explanation for some aspect of the world doesn't seem to fit, a lot of players are willing to forgive such minor blemishes if they're quietly shuffled off-stage and don't unravel the shared illusion. But that's not really an option when the hit to the setting's logic is another PC, who by definition is "on-stage" all of the time, even if they're not in the spotlight.

So when that happens, how can the issue be resolved?

D. Living in a Shared World
"I wanna be a catgirl! Or at least play one." -The Bros. Grinn (yes, really)

So what happens when an irresistible force (i.e. a player) meets an immovable object (what we call my local GM)?

The option that's usually reached for is a compromise; the preceding section alluded to that when it mentioned that, rather than an apparatus of Kwalish, a player might be allowed to start with a lesser magic item in its place. Alternatively, a popular option is to present the PC as breaking some rule of the game world (or, less severely, having something that's outside of the baseline expectations for the setting), and making that be a focal point of play. Middle Earth was very much a low-magic world, but The Lord of the Rings still had no problem starting out giving a major artifact to a 1st-level halfling thief (who inherited it from his rich uncle).

But what happens when this doesn't work? If a GM doesn't want to a play in a game where the expectation is that the PCs are special, or if a player insists on having their PC be distinctive in some way that contravenes the setting, and no reconciliation of these ideas is possible?

That tends to be, as Grandma Alzrius liked to say, "when it's time to throw down." Of course, she said that through the telephone from across the glass panel, so that might not be the best advice.

More usually, there's an expectation that whoever wants it more should be acquiesced to. We see this a lot if someone says they have a great deal of personal investment in a given idea, and that not being able to put it into play will be injurious to them. In some cases, this is presented via a referendum on the other side's moral character, in that if they don't back down they're a bad person. Because magic elf games are very serious business indeed.

The thing I find it best to remember, when this sort of situation comes up, is that pointing out that a given idea clashes with a setting's verisimilitude isn't an indictment of that idea unto itself. No one is suggesting that a thri-kreen is inherently a bad idea for a character, and that they shouldn't exist; it's just a bad idea for a character in a Masque of the Red Death campaign, because they don't exist in Gothic Earth in the 1890s. That's going to be the case regardless of how badly you want to play a mantis-person; even if you come up with a reason for one to still exist, how well will they fit in when the action primarily takes place in downtown Chicago?

Ultimately, everyone is showing up to have fun, and that's the single most important fact to keep in mind when sitting down around the table. If you can't have fun unless you get to have things your way, then there's an implicit social contract that you're not living up to; and while that sword cuts both ways – toward the player who has a character idea they're invested in, and the GM who has a world they're invested in – I personally tend to find that an immersive world is fun for everyone, whereas an individual's PC tends to be fun mostly for them; hence, the PC should (more often than not) be the one to back down if the GM explains that their character isn't a good fit for this particular setting (though ideally that's a last resort, and the player's desires will be kept in mind when the next campaign is being designed).

YMMV, of course.
I love everything about this post, and this topic.

Perhaps unsurprisingly.
 

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
i'd like to ask the question: what are the best non-DnD settings that people know of that have alot of verisimilitude while not being at all realistic? and what specific factors in those worlds make them feel verisimilitous?

also, great post OP.
Legend of the Five Rings. Avatar. Star Trek. To name a few.
 


Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
This is really why I always come at the game from a narrative perspective, and not a mechanical one.

If one treats mechanics merely as the randomization of story, rather than what is "really happening", you can just ignore all the so-called discrepancies. Are halflings REALLY as strong or have the physics behind their actions like goliaths do? Doesn't matter. What matters is the narrative results of the halfling's actions in the story. And there's no reason why a halfling warrior can't take out an enemy just like a goliath can take an enemy out. Sure, how it "looks" when the halfling does it would be different that the goliath (even if the game mechanics say they have the same "strength" score and their weaponsdo the same "damage" amounts), but I do not need the mechanics to match the fiction on a 1-for-1 basis.

The mechanics make the board game feel equal amongst all the players, but the narrative that illustrates it can be more world appropriate.
For me, if the revealed narrative and the mechanics that made it happen have little in common with each other, it snaps my reality suspenders hard and I just can't enjoy it.
 

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
My own sense of verisimilitude is broken if you impose mundane limitations on high level characters. A high level Fighter can fight multiple T-Rexes in a day. How he not simply bypass mundane limits? What's the point of levels and scaling power if you don't become more powerful? I assume most of you have a soft cap of level ten or so? Or is the E6 club still alive and kicking?
I have no problem with characters transcending mundane limits at a certain point of development. But my sense of verisimilitude is broken if this just happens without explanation, even if it's just noting that at level x, all characters take on elements of the supernatural.
 


Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
That’s probably one of the biggest problems, and probably at the heart of all this - “Where do you draw the line?”

As @Oofta explained, people are able to handle Indy using a raft as a parachute, but lose it when he survives being nuked in a fridge (I’m one of those). Movies like Die Hard and John Wick stretch human ability and resistance, but most of the time the audience is willing to go along with the heroics for the sake of the story.

How far can you push the boundary when you’ve got a world where dragons fly and breathe fire? Is a warrior who can shoot lightning out of his butt too far? What of the same warrior clearing the room in 6 seconds flat with just their swords, knuckles and a couple of well-placed kicks to the head? How about with a tin cup or the jawbone of a donkey? Is your warrior fierce enough they can kill with a stare, or mere mention of their name fell kingdoms? What is your tipping point where it goes from badass to silly?

I think a lot of the answers to that is often tied up into the fantasy media we grew up with an and accustomed to. Mine was 70’s and 80’s sword & sorcery schlock, and a handful of fantasy books/comics - Conan, Odyssey, King Arthur and the like. Mostly very grounded, with magic very rare and more flash than power. Of course, later I found myself introduced to the likes of Harry Potter, Inayashu and other tales where magic was far more intrusive, common and generally powerful, and it has affected my tolerance for the more fantastical aspects in D&D.
In what direction?
 

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Case in point below:You could make a game with heavy versimulitude that makes halfling an inferior choice, or make magic superior to mundane abilities, but that sacrifices the notion that halfling and goliath or fighter and wizard should be roughly equal choices.
Perhaps they're just not equal physically. There are other potential factors.
 

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