The iPhone Will Kill D&D

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

Nitpick incoming...

So what? Part of the nice things about newer technology is that we can make things simpler to use by abstracting more. With greater abstraction tends to come simpler design. Simpler design tends to increase usability. Greater usability generally means more information presented to the untrained user.

No. The opposite is the case. Greater usability means less information is initially available to the user. But it is the information he wants or needs.

This is not actually a dichotomy. I think you are both right.

The untrained user vs the expert user are very different in this regard. A properly simplified UI does result in the untrained user ending up with more information processed and understood, even though less total information is apparently pouring out at any given time. It is this vast improvement in the signal-to-noise ratio that allows better processing. A good UI removes the cognitive load of canceling out the extraneous info... by simply not making it scream for attention. It is, however, still available for the expert user if they want it.

So, less total information is coming out by default for the expert user, but the baseline experience is so much more accessible that the untrained user understands it better.... and therefore have access to more information than when they were using the original UI.

The development of expertise means that you've automated the straightforward processes. That first layer which confounds the untrained user. Leaving the vast majority of your personal processing power for parsing out the "extra" information.

Of course.... that "extra" information is often not a value add, even for experts, IMO. Nor are complicated control systems necessarily good, for the same reason (Blasphemy!). For example, even "teh hardcorez" gamers often pick up a Wii version of a game, and if they can get past the lesser graphics, find that the game is a purer, more distilled form of fun.

 

[gamerprinter]

Patently silly tools

That is patently false. Multi-touch tables are being home-brewed, I'm gathering components for one right now. The reason you don't see it happening is because you are uninformed, not because it's impractical.

For less than $500 you can put together the core of a full multi-touch table. Add a projector and you're done. The process is fairly painless once you get hold of the materials.

Want to put less money/effort in, fine go the Wiimote way. Less functionality but cheap enough to be accessible to anyone. Within a year or two it's going to get even easier.

I'm not sure where you got the information that a touch table was 'so expensive', but it's simply not true.

I actually briefly looked at the idea 2 or 3 years ago and found it impractical then. Perhaps technology has changed or things got cheaper, but "patently false" come on, lighten up. Besides less than $500 that is still impractical. Less than $100 now you've got something worth looking at.

And since its really not "something I'm looking for", its really a non-issue for me.

Besides I much prefer dice, miniatures, maps, books, paper and pencil with a laptop of PDFs to aid in rules searching while I play.

I work in a digitaL environment all day long - at play I never do. I don't and never had a WII, XBOX, Nintendo, Playstation or any of that, because I just don't care for those kinds of games. I'm strictly tabletop. I like games that I participate with real people in the same room.

Not that there's anything wrong with electronic games, its just unnecessary for me to have fun.

When I see an argument that this or that technology is going to kill a table top game, it really makes no sense to me at all. Why would electronics even be involved?

Tech tools can enhance the game, I don't disagree.

To think that a given tech tool is going to kill a tabletop game - well that's just "patently" silly.

GP

PS: if I had an extra $500 I'd buy more books.

 

[jgerman]

I actually briefly looked at the idea 2 or 3 years ago and found it impractical then. Perhaps technology has changed or things got cheaper, but "patently false" come on, lighten up. Besides less than $500 that is still impractical. Less than $100 now you've got something worth looking at.

Yes, patently false. $500 is nothing, put a digital table out that can run a VTT for that price and they'd sell like gangbusters. Quadruple the price, it'd still sell like mad.

The only barrier now is that you have to assemble it yourself, or find someone to do it for you. It's neither impractical or too expensive. It takes a little time and a little work and like I said, in a year or two it will be even more accessible.

The rest of your post had nothing to do with what I was saying.

 

[gamerprinter]

Yes, patently false. $500 is nothing, put a digital table out that can run a VTT for that price and they'd sell like gangbusters. Quadruple the price, it'd still sell like mad.

The only barrier now is that you have to assemble it yourself, or find someone to do it for you. It's neither impractical or too expensive. It takes a little time and a little work and like I said, in a year or two it will be even more accessible.

The rest of your post had nothing to do with what I was saying.

If I wanted to develop this as a product, I'm sure you are doing the right process in getting that to happen. I'm sure it would be worth it to someone, just not me.

The rest of the post was in answering the thread, not you.

If you sell this I hope you make a fortune, it just won't be coming from the people I play the game with - we have no need for that tool. Fact is I hava MapTool, which is free, and my players and other gamers I know, don't even use VT so its just taking up space on my PC.

They don't even want me to bring a laptop into the game.

Let's just agree to disagree.

GP

 

[PaulofCthulhu]

Will the "iPhone" (or its kin) Kill D&D? I guess that depends what D&D actually is to you.

Is D&D sufficiently rules complex that it desires such computational power in order to ease the administrative burden of running/playing the game? If so, why not just make the rules simpler? It's all a simplified abstraction of some form of reality anyway.

I do like the idea of administrative assistants, but more for GM setting background and plot referencing than game mechanics. The other weekend at a convention a friend told me of a recent D&D game he played in where everyone around the table had laptops. As the game proceeded the group got quieter & quieter and more distracted as their focus drifted toward the machines, which acted like little barriers to player interaction.

To me the greater problem remains generational. For tabletop to carry on, a sufficient number of new players need to exist to be able to physically get together around a table and play. We have new players, yes, but enough to sustain tabletop groups in 30 years time? I don't know (but I hope so).

As Ryan Dancey has commented elsewhere (re: D&D vs. WoW) it's not a question of "Better" it's a question of "Good Enough". Also to paraphrase Gary Gygax: Theatre is best, Films are great, TV is OK & convenient and a lot more people watch TV than go to the theatre.

 

[sfloyd]

No way. It's just way to fun to play by p&p. Besides, how long would it take for them to pull up dice or anything on their iphone. When you can just roll it and be done with it.

 

[Poison Idea]

I honestly don't think it'll get to that stage. I started gaming with my friends who are all members of the techno-obsessed Y generation but when we play dnd, phones go off, i-whatevers are usually surrendered in a small pile on the table and nobody really wants it any other way.

I've brought up the idea of incorporating laptops and other things into the game but nobody really wants that.

I don't think technology will really ever win out over pnp in a dnd scene.

 

[gamerprinter]

It only takes adding new blood...

As the game proceeded the group got quieter & quieter and more distracted as their focus drifted toward the machines, which acted like little barriers to player interaction.

To me the greater problem remains generational. For tabletop to carry on, a sufficient number of new players need to exist to be able to physically get together around a table and play. We have new players, yes, but enough to sustain tabletop groups in 30 years time? I don't know (but I hope so).

Regarding the first part, I think that makes sense. And a good argument why I don't want a digital interface added to my game.

Regard JGerman, I really didn't mean to get you all riled up. I know a digital table is basically a digital interface and still kind of table top. Its just my table is made of wood, or formica or some such, add requires no electricity. Other than room lights!

Good luck on your table thing, I hope it works out for you.

Regarding the second part. Though its sad, our old DM was killed in a car accident years ago, but now 10 years later, his daughter is all grown up and now a regular in our game. A male friend of hers is playing as well. They are probably 22 - 23 years old. All it takes is bringing new blood, the tradition would continue I think.

Would numbers get smaller, perhaps, I hope not - I really love the game, and think at has so many merits over playing digital interfaced games, just my opinion.

I predict being in the nursing home playing D&D with a bunch of old guys all day long, if I live that long.

GP

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

The other weekend at a convention a friend told me of a recent D&D game he played in where everyone around the table had laptops. As the game proceeded the group got quieter & quieter and more distracted as their focus drifted toward the machines, which acted like little barriers to player interaction.

That's because it's a poorly designed UI for playing D&D. You're comparing coconuts and blueberries.

Like we've been saying, these things are an aid when they facilitate interaction, either at a distance, or right at the table (preferably both).

Each person at their own laptop is BAD, in any case, because it destroys common frame of reference, which is at the core of the game (and human communication in general). When every person is, however, looking at the same touchscreen tabletop most of the time... it's just a high tech version of the game table you're using now.

And the ability of your iPhone/PDA/etc to talk to it isn't going to lead you to stare at that tiny little screen constantly, since the action is on the big tabletop. You'll only look at the PDA to input commands and then turn your attention back to the big, purty table. Unless you're the guy six time zones away who is only able to play at all because he can hook in with his PDA.