The Lance

[mvincent]

Now, if "One-handed" and "Two-handed" are merely matters of convenience, then as soon as I put a second hand on my longsword, it gains 5 hit points, since it just changed from a One-handed blade (5HP) to a Two-handed blade (10HP).

I think they explained that in the FAQ. At least it makes sense to me.

The 'handiness' of a weapon can change due to size anyway, so it is more a matter of convience.

The hardness/hp's in that table are merely samples (for medium sized creatures). Even here the terminology is flexible: a large one-handed weapon is effectively a medium two-handed weapons in regard to hp's.

Obviously a weapon's hp don't change when you put another hand on them, but that's certainly not how I interpretted WotC's clarification.

WotC has stated that the terminology isn't what you think it is, and (if viewed the way they intend) doesn't seem to conflict with the core rules to me. In fact, they now seem to correspond to how I originally interpretted the rules (before some players convinced me that the terminology was strict).

But that's why I asked...

 

[mvincent]

The debate is not weather or not the lance is a two handed weapon, which it is, it is whether or not you get x1.5 strength when wielding it with one hand on a horse.

By the rules (as WotC clarified them)... No. You only get the 1.5 damage if you use both hands (regardless of weapon type).

In play, I would probably not require a knight to joust with both hands to do full damage (assuming he wasn't abusing this by attacking with the other hand or somesuch), because it would look a bit silly.

 

[BullMarkOne]

Re: Spirited Charge



Your human fighter could do that at first level: One feat for being first level, a bonus feat for being human and a bonus fighter feat for Mounted Combat, Ride-by Attack, Spirited Charge.

Take druid levels for the rest of your career and you've got a really fine mounted combat character who can cast spells pretty well, wield a mean lance and have a fine animal companion mount that is tough enough to survive a few hits in combat.

Ahh, but then you'd have to wait until character level 3 (druid level 2) for all the crunchy goodness that Power Attack brings to the table.

 

[ThirdWizard]

The debate is not weather or not the lance is a two handed weapon, which it is, it is whether or not you get x1.5 strength when wielding it with one hand on a horse.

And the SRD is confusing because it dismisses all other differences of a weapon type as trivial.

Check it out (emphasis added).

POWER ATTACK [GENERAL]
Prerequisite: Str 13.
Benefit: On your action, before making attack rolls for a round, you may choose to subtract a number from all melee attack rolls and add the same number to all melee damage rolls. This number may not exceed your base attack bonus. The penalty on attacks and bonus on damage apply until your next turn.
Special: If you attack with a two-handed weapon,or with a one-handed weapon wielded in two hands, instead add twice the number subtracted from your attack rolls. You can’t add the bonus from Power Attack to the damage dealt with a light weapon (except with unarmed strikes or natural weapon attacks), even though the penalty on attack rolls still applies. (Normally, you treat a double weapon as a one-handed weapon and a light weapon. If you choose to use a double weapon like a two-handed weapon, attacking with only one end of it in a round, you treat it as a two-handed weapon.)
A fighter may select Power Attack as one of his fighter bonus feats.

Note that it does not say "weapon wielded in two hands" it says "two-handed weapon." Is the lance a two-handed weapon? Yes. Then it gets 2x Str mod.

 

[kjenks]

Ahh, but then you'd have to wait until character level 3 (druid level 2) for all the crunchy goodness that Power Attack brings to the table.

Before character level 3, you'd only have +1 BAB to toss around anyway, so this is not a huge loss.

1 Ftr1 Mounted Combat, Ride-by Attack, Spirited Charge
2 Drd1 (Animal companion: heavy horse)
3 Drd2 Power Attack
4 Drd3
5 Drd4
6 Drd5 Improved Bull Rush
7 Drd6
8 Drd7
9 Drd8 Shock Trooper

 

[Tatsukun]

I've never bought Hyp's argument that a weapon being used in one hand can get 1.5 times STR just because it's usually used in two hands.

It's just silly. It doesn't really matter to me what one reading of the rules says. To me, it's just odd to say that you can dual wield lances and get a total of 3 times your STR. There’s such a thing as getting too focused on details and missing the overall meaning.

Originally I just used "Rule 0.1" on it, but now it looks like the official rules are with me. Cool.

-Tatsu

 

[glass]

I've never bought Hyp's argument that a weapon being used in one hand can get 1.5 times STR just because it's usually used in two hands.

It's just silly. It doesn't really matter to me what one reading of the rules says. To me, it's just odd to say that you can dual wield lances and get a total of 3 times your STR. There’s such a thing as getting too focused on details and missing the overall meaning.

Originally I just used "Rule 0.1" on it, but now it looks like the official rules are with me. Cool.

The official rules are not with you. The official rules are in the PHB, not the FAQ. The FAQ should reflect the rule in the PHB. Where it does not, the FAQ is wrong.

As Hyp has been saying until he is blue in the face ( ), the lance is a 2 handed weapon. 2 handed weapons deal 1.5x Str bonus and the extra damage in power attack. It really should be as simple as that, and it would have been if the erroneus FAQ entries hadn't come along to confuse people.


glass.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Note that it does not say "weapon wielded in two hands" it says "two-handed weapon." Is the lance a two-handed weapon? Yes. Then it gets 2x Str mod.

You mean 2x power attack mod and 1.5x strength mod.

 

[BullMarkOne]

Before character level 3, you'd only have +1 BAB to toss around anyway, so this is not a huge loss.

1 Ftr1 Mounted Combat, Ride-by Attack, Spirited Charge
2 Drd1 (Animal companion: heavy horse)
3 Drd2 Power Attack
4 Drd3
5 Drd4
6 Drd5 Improved Bull Rush
7 Drd6
8 Drd7
9 Drd8 Shock Trooper

good point, but I still think I'd rather either go fighter 2, or just start grabbing paladin levels.. that would fit the knight in shining armor ideal quite nicely, and the better BAB progression would mesh well with Power Attack.

 

[ThirdWizard]

You mean 2x power attack mod and 1.5x strength mod.

There I go getting ahead of myself!