D&D 5E The Larger Failure of "Tyranny of Dragons"

[Zardnaar]

O.K., that's no excuse; I normally homebrew as well. I am currently running Descent into Avernus but I'm only keeping the skeleton of the adventure. I've added my own material, changed the timeline of when things happened and tailored the adventure to my player's tastes. I still think the book was money well spent - it has given me plenty of information and is useful outside of the adventure due to the gazetteer.

I have also bought the one volume edition of Tyranny of Dragons, have read it through and plan to do the same with that. I can see the early sections of 'Hoard' are problematic but easy to sort out. You make the material your own. I personally feel that anyone going to DM a published adventure should be prepared to change it and needs to be flexible. I pity the players of a DM who is not - I've played with one or two DMs like that and it was no fun; railroading; inability to adjust when we went off track; not accounting for what the players want to do.

Plenty of people have played Hoard over the years - it's not as well constructed as later books but it's not bad - and it's still in print. Therefore, while it might have failed your personal metric you seem to be in a minority and appear curiously inflexible when it comes to running a published adventure. I have been running tabletop RPGs for 30 years and only a handful of times have I come across DMs/GMs who do not adjust published adventures - the ones I mentioned above.

The reason I'm running a prepublished adventure is because.

1. The adventure is interesting and I want to run it.

2. I'm being lazy and want run it with a minimum of effort beyond changing some names.

I often mine adventures if course. I haven't run a prepublished adventure for a while.

 

[billd91]

Unless you think the person is lying, that’s exactly what it means because that’s the reason they said they gave five stars. Why would someone love the adventure, but not mention anything about that but instead mention the timely shipping? Also, other people has said they gave it five stars and explicitly said they haven’t even read or played it yet, but liked how it looked with the art.

So yeah, relying on amazon reviews is a fools game lol. Not just with RPGs, but most things. That’s why we have professional reviewers.

It may be true that someone did rate it highly because it came on time, but skimming over a bunch of those reviews and there are quite a few that go into some explanation of their experiences actually running the game and playing it who are still giving it 5 stars. So I have my doubts that timely shipping is likely to be a massive factor in the hundreds of reviews.

It may well be that people on the internet are very easy graders with a system like this. Quite a few of the 5 star reviews also indicated that they made modifications in the way they ran the modules or had taken some corrective measures like more healing early in the campaign's encounters. To someone else, that might have indicated a rating below the top level. But that's just a difference in standards and you get them between professional reviewers as well.

 

[Sadras]

I posted because of the frustration I'm having trying to find an adventure to run for a group that wants a "classic Dnd" experience, which would seem to be Tyranny of Dragons, but because it's awful I have to update something from a previous edition.

If you'e willing to put all the effort into updating previous modules, then arguably you could put in some effort into finding the many wonderful and free improvements that can be found online for the ToD storyline, no?


Enworld threads

D&D 5E - Enhancing "Hoard of the Dragon Queen" (Practical stuff to try at your table!)

My players just gave me Hoard of the Dragon Queen and Rise of Tiamat for an early Christmas present, on the understanding that I'll run the adventures for them. I've seen comments around the net saying these modules can use a bit of work to make them run better at the table, so I'd really like...

www.enworld.org

D&D 5E - Enhancing "Rise of Tiamat" (Practical stuff to try at your table!)

(A companion to the similar thread for Hoard of the Dragon Queen.) My players just gave me Hoard of the Dragon Queen and Rise of Tiamat for an early Christmas present, on the understanding that I'll run the adventures for them. I've seen comments around the net saying these modules can use...

www.enworld.org

D&D 5E - Red Hand of Doom + Rise of Tiamat + Scales of War

Hey there! I've got at least half a year to plan it out, but my players want me to run a campaign where they tussle with Tiamat after we finish up our current outing. I wasn't big on "Hoard of the Dragon Queen", but I love Red Hand of Doom and Rise of Tiamat, and Scales of War gives some fun...

www.enworld.org

Other useful threads/websites

Tyranny of Dragons - A Guide to Hoard of the Dragon Queen and The Rise of Tiamat

This article contains notes and information for Dungeon Masters who are running the Tyranny of Dragons path for Dungeons & Dragons 5th edi...

thecampaign20xx.blogspot.com

Why the Tyranny of Dragons is a Bad Story… and How to Fix It

Tyranny of Dragons.

xaeyruudh.wordpress.com

Hoard of the Dragon Queen: Greenest in Flames

Hoard of the Dragon Queen: Greenest in Flames Taking the spot as the first officially published Dungeons and Dragons 5th Edition adventure (excluding Lost Mines of Phandelver included in the the Dunge...

slyflourish.com

HotDQ

HotDQ stands for Hoard of the Dragon Queen, the first adventure path for 5th edition. This adventure path is complicated and requires a lo...

hackslashmaster.blogspot.com

Tyranny of Dragons Archives - Merric's Musings

Villain Design: The Rise of Tiamat – Brandes Stoddard

www.brandesstoddard.com

Some paying and some free products on DMsGuild

A Guide to Tyranny of Dragons - Dungeon Masters Guild | Dungeon Masters Guild

A Guide to Tyranny of Dragons - A Guide to Tyranny of Dragons is designed to help Dungeon Masters prepare to run both Hoard of the Dragon Queen and Rise

www.dmsguild.com

Council Of Waterdeep - Dungeon Masters Guild | Dungeon Masters Guild

Council Of Waterdeep - There is a lot of information floating around out there for Hoard of the Dragon Queen and Rise of Tiamat for the council

www.dmsguild.com

Frozen Castle - Expanding Tyranny of Dragons - Dungeon Masters Guild | Dungeon Masters Guild

Frozen Castle - Expanding Tyranny of Dragons - Tyranny Expanded: A Return to Skyreach Castle! The loss of Skyreach Castle in Hoard of the Dragon Queen was a major s

www.dmsguild.com

Digital Map: Castle in the Sky - Dungeon Masters Guild | Dungeon Masters Guild

Digital Map: Castle in the Sky - This digital tactical battle map is a complete overhaul of the flying castle in the sky featured in the published advent

www.dmsguild.com

DM's Kit: On the Trail of Tyranny - Dungeon Masters Guild | Dungeon Masters Guild

DM's Kit: On the Trail of Tyranny - Are you a Dungeon Master embarking on a Tyranny of Dragons campaign using the published adventures, Hoard of the Dragon

www.dmsguild.com

DM's Kit: Springboard Adventures for Tyranny of Dragons - Dungeon Masters Guild | Dungeon Masters Guild

DM's Kit: Springboard Adventures for Tyranny of Dragons - Springboard Adventures for the Tyranny of Dragons Storyline A frugal Dungeon Master is here to help you get more out of

www.dmsguild.com

Baldur's Gate: The Fall of Elturel - Dungeon Masters Guild | Dungeon Masters Guild

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www.dmsguild.com

DM's Kit: Palace of the Red Pasha - Dungeon Masters Guild | Dungeon Masters Guild

DM's Kit: Palace of the Red Pasha - DM’s Kit: PALACE OF THE RED PASHA There is little time to celebrate the victory at the Well of Dragons. The Lord’s A

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Wyrms of the Realms: Klauth - Dungeon Masters Guild | Dungeon Masters Guild

Wyrms of the Realms: Klauth - WYRMS OF THE REALMS KLAUTH, "Old Snarl" Dragons are powerful creatures of magic and might. They fill dreams and nightmar

www.dmsguild.com

Into the Dragon's Maw (5E Adventure) - Dungeon Masters Guild | Dungeon Masters Guild

Into the Dragon's Maw (5E Adventure) - Description Into the Dragon's Maw is an exciting five to six hour D&D 5E adventure for characters of 4th to 6th leve

www.dmsguild.com

Monster Loot – Tyranny of Dragons - Dungeon Masters Guild | Dungeon Masters Guild

Monster Loot – Tyranny of Dragons - I want to loot Tiamat! When brave adventurers face the dangers of the world, they want something to show for it. This su

www.dmsguild.com

So many years down the line and with so much assistance, the AP's success is really what YOU make of it.

 

[clearstream]

I posted because of the frustration I'm having trying to find an adventure to run for a group that wants a "classic Dnd" experience, which would seem to be Tyranny of Dragons, but because it's awful I have to update something from a previous edition.
But more importantly, if you're tired of discussing the topic, why are you posting in the thread?

I have Tomb of Annihilation, but not run it yet. Based on reading, it strikes me as a "classic DnD" experience. Maybe it is what you are looking for?

It reads like a blend of the two classics - The Isle of Dread and Tomb of Horrors. I ran the first and played in the other, and for me they were highly evocative! I expect to run ToA over Fantasy Grounds in 2020.

 

[Parmandur]

It may be true that someone did rate it highly because it came on time, but skimming over a bunch of those reviews and there are quite a few that go into some explanation of their experiences actually running the game and playing it who are still giving it 5 stars. So I have my doubts that timely shipping is likely to be a massive factor in the hundreds of reviews.

It may well be that people on the internet are very easy graders with a system like this. Quite a few of the 5 star reviews also indicated that they made modifications in the way they ran the modules or had taken some corrective measures like more healing early in the campaign's encounters. To someone else, that might have indicated a rating below the top level. But that's just a difference in standards and you get them between professional reviewers as well.

The average for these sort of reviews online is 4 stars: over 4 stars is good, under 4 is bad. Across the hundreds of reviews, it evens out.

 

[Zardnaar]

If they're giving HotDQ 5 stars wonder what would happen if they come across an actual 5 star adventure. Mind blown lol.

Remember online a lot of people if the like something they give it 5 stars if they don't they give it one star.

 

[Parmandur]

If they're giving HotDQ 5 stars wonder what would happen if they come across an actual 5 star adventure. Mind blown lol.

Remember online a lot of people if the like something they give it 5 stars if they don't they give it one star.

Aaed on the other Adventures reviews on Amazon, give them five stars too. All of the 5E Adventure books have primarily 5-star reviews, the spread is 4.3-4.6 average. That's still good, since 4 is the average for online reviews.

 

[Zardnaar]

Aaed on the other Adventures reviews on Amazon, give them five stars too. All of the 5E Adventure books have primarily 5-star reviews, the spread is 4.3-4.6 average. That's still good, since 4 is the average for online reviews.

That's why I don't trust the reviews. I own most of the adventures. Not many of them are good enough for 4 star reviews or higher lol.

Plenty of PF, 3.5, OSR adventures are 4 stars or higher. HotDQ isn't one of them lol.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

You like tweaking stuff, I'll do it if I want to I'm not a fan of doing it because I have to.

I don't like tweeking stuff. It's necessary.

DMing is just like teaching a lesson. Yes, you can turn up in a classroom, open a scheme of work, and teach from someone else's lesson plan - and it won't be a very good lesson. Or you can spend an hour reading through the lesson plan and tweaking it to suit your style and the class (if you know them), and it will be a better lesson. Or you could spend several hours writing the lesson plan from scratch and preparing custom resources, and it will be better still.

Obviously, time is the enemy of good teaching and good DMing. It's no coincidence that I didn't do any DMing in the time between leaving school and becaming semi-retired.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

really I think that is too much to expect and leads to railroading. What happens if an important MPC gets killed. Or someone angers a potential ally. Module would be 100,000 pages or more if they tried to account for every possibility.

I agree. It's simply not possible to write something that can be run out-the-box without heavy railroading, for exactly that reason.

Having an expectation that a published adventure should be runnable out of the box is simply not realistic.