D&D 5E The Larger Failure of "Tyranny of Dragons"

[Azzy]

Azzy, before you choose this hill to die on, you should actually read the reviews you’re defending. Many of the 5 stars have nothing to do with the quality of the adventure. They are for things like “package arrived on time” or “book seems well made”

And that's legit. But Zard dimissing them out of hand without even looking at them is just ignorant. But what you cited is why you read the actual reviews instead of just looking at the number of stars (or just dismiss out of hand).

 

[Parmandur]

Azzy, before you choose this hill to die on, you should actually read the reviews you’re defending. Many of the 5 stars have nothing to do with the quality of the adventure. They are for things like “package arrived on time” or “book seems well made”

That’s why Amazon reviews can’t have a whole lot of weight put into them. I much more trust the reviews from actual reviewers who know the game, rather than amazon reviews

It's true, many aren't super informative. But, they aren't significantly different than the other Adventure books reviews, and people would likely adjust their reviews later if they found the book unplayable. We don't have many other objective data points for reception by the community, but the book does keep selling and people keep tallki g about to run it.

 

[Zardnaar]

And that's legit. But Zard dimissing them out of hand without even looking at them is just ignorant. But what you cited is why you read the actual reviews instead of just looking at the number of stars (or just dismiss out of hand).

Not really but I count as a hard core player. I have different tastes than the vast majority of of casual type players. Hence why I value say ENworlds opinions over Amazon.

I like a little bit of crunch and a setting or theme a bit more complicated than the default rules.

And a lot of them will point out the flaws of the adventures because they're playing them. Parcel arrived on time, book was pretty great adventure is useless as a review.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I posted because of the frustration I'm having trying to find an adventure to run for a group that wants a "classic Dnd" experience, which would seem to be Tyranny of Dragons

Don't feel bad, then, 'cause it's no such thing. The city under attack, the setting tourism, the cults. That's not classic D&D.
Neither are some of the better ones, like CoS.

Endless dungeons populated by monsters with no visible means of support and peppered with arbitrary magical tricks & traps, guarding treasure hoards & cursed items with about equal frequency, that's a classed D&D module.

Maybe try something from Yawning Portal?

but because it's awful I have to update something from a previous edition.

Just convert something old and low-level enough and it's comes pretty naturally.
Keep it in the dungeon, too.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

It's true, many aren't super informative. But, they aren't significantly different than the other Adventure books reviews, and people would likely adjust their reviews later if they found the book unplayable. We don't have many other objective data points for reception by the community, but the book does keep selling and people keep tallki g about to run it.

I'll add two things about Amazon reviews;

1. Most complaints about Amazon reviews being inaccurate are valid critiques, but only when you are treating it as a "percentage of quality." If a book gets 4.5 stars, does that make it 90% perfect? Not really, no.
However, where the reviews are useful is comparing books against each other. So Hoard, which has the worst rating (4.3) is considered one of the worst reviews by the community. Sure people gave it 5 stars, maybe for silly reasons like "delivery arrived on time," but those same silly reviews emerge for all the books, so the only useful way of using Amazon is by comparison.

2. It is incredibly ironic for someone to complain Amazon reviews are arbitrary or not well-balanced data, when it is the only data available. Everything else, like forum posts or even long-form reviews, have no way to standardize and can't provide any useful data points at all. So although Amazon is flawed, it's the best data points we got.

Sadly, not enough people have left reviews on the combined Tyranny of Dragons to actually know what people think of it's new combined release (17 reviews is a poor sample size). However, one can use the number of reviews left combined with their ratings to estimate ToD popularity.

Hoard has 333 reviews, averaging 4.3. Rise has 182 reviews at 4.6. Combined, that makes their total average 4.4. This puts the combined book in the bottom tier of adventures, most of the drag being Hoard.

 

[hawkeyefan]

I’ve run several of the WotC adventures, and played in a couple as well. The ones I’ve run have all been significantly altered to fit into one campaign rather than being a campaign unto themselves. This is because I have, for lack of a better term, an old school taste for long campaigns.

So I ripped huge chunks from the books and tossed them aside and only played what seemed like the stuff most suited to my group, along with a lot of homebrew material.

I’ve been playing since the AD&D days, and DMing since shortly after that. I have a good amount of experience with published modules.

Most adventures have something going for them. Sure, it may take some changing, or you may not use a good deal of the material. But most...especially those of professional quality like WotC and similar companies produce...are far from horrible.

Thos is the problem with online reviews and forum postings....hyperbole makes it difficult to get an accurate assessment.

If there was a new DM out there and they were looking into Tyranny of Dragons online for some guidance, I hope they come across material that tries to help them run the adventure well rather than people dismissing it as horrible.

The negativity is just ridiculous.

 

[dave2008]

There's a movie, "Sin City". I can't stand it. Don't like it one bit.

However, I recognize that it is a well-made film. There's craftsmanship in it, and it does exactly what it set out to do. In that sense, it is actually a very good movie, that I just don't happen to want to ever see again.

For the holidays, I would like to see a day on EN World where folks recognize the difference between, "I don't like it, myself," and, "this is not good."

Yes, I should have been more clear. I don't like published adventures, I just can't get into them. That doesn't mean they are not good, it is just that they are not good for me.

 

[dave2008]

Azzy, before you choose this hill to die on, you should actually read the reviews you’re defending. Many of the 5 stars have nothing to do with the quality of the adventure. They are for things like “package arrived on time” or “book seems well made”

Just because someone says: "it came on time" and gave it 5 stars, does not mean the reason they gave it 5 stars is because it came on time.

That being said, I agree with a previous poster in that the value of the ratings is not for an individual product, but understanding its relationship to other products. If Hoard gets 4.3 stars and Rise gets 4.6 stars, it is probably a reasonable metric to believe Rise is better, according to the general purchaser, than Hoard.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Just because someone says: "it came on time" and gave it 5 stars, does not mean the reason they gave it 5 stars is because it came on time.

Unless you think the person is lying, that’s exactly what it means because that’s the reason they said they gave five stars. Why would someone love the adventure, but not mention anything about that but instead mention the timely shipping? Also, other people has said they gave it five stars and explicitly said they haven’t even read or played it yet, but liked how it looked with the art.

So yeah, relying on amazon reviews is a fools game lol. Not just with RPGs, but most things. That’s why we have professional reviewers.

 

[Acolyte of Zothique]

I normally Homebrew, if I'm running a prepublished adventure I've paid good money for I expect a certain level of quality.

HotDQ fails that metric.

O.K., that's no excuse; I normally homebrew as well. I am currently running Descent into Avernus but I'm only keeping the skeleton of the adventure. I've added my own material, changed the timeline of when things happened and tailored the adventure to my player's tastes. I still think the book was money well spent - it has given me plenty of information and is useful outside of the adventure due to the gazetteer.

I have also bought the one volume edition of Tyranny of Dragons, have read it through and plan to do the same with that. I can see the early sections of 'Hoard' are problematic but easy to sort out. You make the material your own. I personally feel that anyone going to DM a published adventure should be prepared to change it and needs to be flexible. I pity the players of a DM who is not - I've played with one or two DMs like that and it was no fun; railroading; inability to adjust when we went off track; not accounting for what the players want to do.

Plenty of people have played Hoard over the years - it's not as well constructed as later books but it's not bad - and it's still in print. Therefore, while it might have failed your personal metric you seem to be in a minority and appear curiously inflexible when it comes to running a published adventure. I have been running tabletop RPGs for 30 years and only a handful of times have I come across DMs/GMs who do not adjust published adventures - the ones I mentioned above.