The Legendary Grappling Monk

[Chimera]

It's El Toro!

(Jackie Chan Adventures)

 

[Legildur]

Well, this landlubber is going to highjack this ship with a couple of questions about grappling that need clarification.

Nasty couple of battles on Friday night. Possible spoiler, but I don't know the name of the module:

Holed up in a small building in graveyard with undead about to assault. I'm thinking that my dwarf monk 7 isn't really well suited to undead what with Stunning Fist and Weakening Touch (CW) useless, and Improved Trip and Improved Grapple not much better with incorporeal creatures. Best I figure I can do is fight defensively (Tumble 5+ ranks) and hope I don't get hit (AC 25) too often.

Rest of the group (elf Transmuter 7, Human half-troll Paladin 6 [don't ask], elf Rogue 7, halfling Cleric 7, and dwarf Barbarian 7) and some NPCs are assaulted by 35+ wights and about half a dozen spectres. The expected negative levels occur to some in the party and I think my monk is safe, until the elite vampire in gaseous form materialises in front of him. Turns out to be a half-elf vampire monk 11 with ridiculous AC.

With nothing to lose, I try the ol' Improved Trip, and what happens, I trip him and follow up with the bonus and remaining flurry attacks!! One prone vampire. DM just shrugs and says 'hope you can grapple..' and the prone vampire grabs my monk and establishes a hold, but fails to pin.

Question 1: if the vampire hadn't moved during the round (and ignoring that he was prone), does a 5ft step to move into my square to maintain the grapple generate AOOs from threatening creatures? I believe it does.

Q2: Given that crawl 5ft is a move action (that provokes AOOs), can the vampire (remember he was prone) in fact move into my square to maintain the grapple?

Q3: Next round, Transmuter cast Enlarge Person on my monk (for which I am eternally gratefull). Suddenly I'm a 10ftx10ft creature. There were 3 of us in a line next to each other. What space do I now occupy? Who has to adjust, and when, to fit everyone in (considering I now occupy a square illegally)?

We had one of the other characters take a 5ft adjustment step on their action to get out of the way. But maybe the whole grapple needed to move 5ft to a legal position.

And now enlarged and with a +20 grapple check, I managed to pin the vampire. I elected to prevent him speaking, but that wasn't much use when he just gazed at me with his Dominate Person and I failed the save. A Protection from Evil fixed that, but it was a close thing.

Ended up driving him off, after destroying wights and spectres, and all ended well.

 

[Pbartender]

The rules o' the Flurry state that all attacks must with unarmed strikes or special monk weapons.

A grapple check be neither o' the two.

If ye be grapplin' already, ye can make use o' the 'attack opponent with light weapon' option, and then ye can use yer Flurry to punch him at -4.

There ye be wrong, ye bilge-suckin' swab...

Accordin' to that thar SRD...

If You Be Grapplin'

When you be grapplin' (regardless o' who started the grapple), ye can perform any o' the followin' actions. Some o' these here actions be takin' the place o' an attack (rather than bein' a standard action or a move action). If yer base attack bonus be allowin' you multiple attacks, ye can attempt one o' these here actions in place o' each o' yer attacks, but at s'ccessively lower base attack bonuses.

Attackin' Yer Opponent: Ye can be makin' an attack with an unarmed strike, nat'ral weapon, or light weapon again' another character ye be grapplin'. Ye're a-takin' a –4 penalty fer such attacks. Ye can’t be attackin' with two weapons while grapplin', even if both're nought but light weapons.

Damagin' Yer Opponent: While grapplin', ye can be dealin' damage t' yer opponent equiv'lent t' an unarmed strike. Make an opposed grapple check in place o' an attack. If ye win, ye be dealin' nonlethal damage as normal fer yer unarmed strike (1d3 points fer Medium attackers or 1d2 points fer Small attackers, plus Strength modifiers). If ye want t' deal lethal damage, ye take a right mighty –4 penalty on yer grapple check.

Exception: Monks be dealin' more damage on an unarmed strike than other characters, an' the damage is lethal. However, they can be choosin' to deal their damage as nonlethal damage when grapplin' without takin' the usual –4 penalty for changin' lethal damage to nonlethal damage.

What's more, there ain't a special monk weapon made that ain't a light weapon t' boot. So 'tis rightly legal-wise by sea-law t' flurry when yer grapplin' so long as ye be using yer unarmed strike or one of them there light monk weapons.

Flurry away, matey! Flurry away! Yar har-harr!

 

[Pbartender]

If you can’t move into your target’s space, you can’t maintain the grapple and must immediately let go of the target. To grapple again, you must begin at Step 1.

Question 1: if the vampire hadn't moved during the round (and ignoring that he was prone), does a 5ft step to move into my square to maintain the grapple generate AOOs from threatening creatures? I believe it does.

Yar, it does, matey, but not from the one bein' grappled.

Step 4: Maintainin' Grapple. To maintain the grapple fer later rounds, ye must be movin' into the target’s space. (This here movement is free an' doesn’t be countin' as part of yer movement in the round.) Movin', as normal, be provokin' attacks o' opportunity from threatening opponents, but not from yer target.

Q2: Given that crawl 5ft is a move action (that provokes AOOs), can the vampire (remember he was prone) in fact move into my square to maintain the grapple?

Above, it be sayin' it be a free movement, but below thar it be sayin' ye lose the grapple, if ye can't be movin'...

Without a more officious officer t' give the commands, I'd refer t' the judgement o' yer right honorable dungeon master.

If you can’t move into your target’s space, you can’t maintain the grapple and must immediately let go of the target. To grapple again, you must begin at Step 1.

Q3: Next round, Transmuter cast Enlarge Person on my monk (for which I am eternally gratefull). Suddenly I'm a 10ftx10ft creature. There were 3 of us in a line next to each other. What space do I now occupy? Who has to adjust, and when, to fit everyone in (considering I now occupy a square illegally)?

My own rulin' would be that yer squeezed until ye or yer mate can move aside...

Squeezin': In some cases, ye may have to be squeezin' into or through an area that ain’t as wide as the space ye be takin' up. Ye can be squeezin' through or into a space that be at least half as wide as yer normal space. Each move into or through a narrow space counts as if t'were 2 squares, an' while ye be squeezed in a narrow space ye be takin' a –4 penalty on attack rolls an' a –4 penalty t' AC.

When a Large creature (which normally takes up four squares) be squeezin' into a space that be one square wide, the creature’s miniature figure be occupyin' two squares, centered on the line 'tween the two squares. Fer a bigger creature, be centerin' the creature likewise in the area it be squeezin' into.

A creature can be squeezin' past an opponent while movin' but it can’t be endin' its movement in an occupied square.

 

[Hypersmurf]

What's more, there ain't a special monk weapon made that ain't a light weapon t' boot.

I have a quarterstaff that says ye be wrong, matey.

So 'tis rightly legal-wise by sea-law t' flurry when yer grapplin' so long as ye be using yer unarmed strike or one of them there light monk weapons.

If ye read me post again, ye'll see I said exactly that.

-Piratesmurf.

 

[Pbartender]

I have a quarterstaff that says ye be wrong, matey.

Ye got me on a lee shore over that one. Aye, I clean forgot about the quarterstaff...

Ye gotta admit, all the others, aside from the shuriken which're ranged weapons anyways, be light weapons. The feller's got a lot o' options fer a flurry o' grapplin' damage.

If ye read me post again, ye'll see I said exactly that.

I'll be takin' another gander here...

The rules o' the Flurry state that all attacks must with unarmed strikes or special monk weapons.

Aye. On that we certainly be in agreement.

A grapple check be neither o' the two.

If ye be grapplin' already, ye can make use o' the 'attack opponent with light weapon' option, and then ye can use yer Flurry to punch him at -4.

Here we be disagreein'... Them rules be clearly statin' that a grapple check can be either or both (so long as that thar monk weapon be a light one).

What's more, he don't be needin' to use the 'Attack Opponent' option, he could be usin' the 'Damage Opponent' option fer unarmed damage, whereby he wouldn't be gettin' any -4 penalty fer attackin'.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

What's more, he don't be needin' to use the 'Attack Opponent' option, he could be usin' the 'Damage Opponent' option fer unarmed damage, whereby he wouldn't be gettin' any -4 penalty fer attackin'.

Arrrgh, but isn't that th' 'Smurf's point, matey? Attack th' opponent wit a monk weapon be fine, but 'Damage Opponent' tain't usin' a monk weapon or unarmed strike. So no Flurryin' wit th' 'Damage Opponent' feature, me hearties!

 

[Pbartender]

Arrrgh, but isn't that th' 'Smurf's point, matey? Attack th' opponent wit a monk weapon be fine, but 'Damage Opponent' tain't usin' a monk weapon or unarmed strike. So no Flurryin' wit th' 'Damage Opponent' feature, me hearties!

[LUBBERSPEAK]
Actually, it works both ways.

Attack Opponent is just like making a regular attack (or full attack), but with a few caveats... You can only use unarmed strike, natural attacks or light weapons, and you take a -4 penalty to hit. That means a monk can use the Attack Opponent option, take a full attack action with flurry of blows, and use a light special monk weapon for all of his attacks with a -4 penalty to hit.

Damage Opponent is an opposed grapple check that deals non-lethal damage, and it replaces a normal attack. That means a monk can take a full attack action with flurry of blows and simply use the Damage Opponent option for all of his unarmed attacks to avoid the -4 penalty.
[/LUBBERSPEAK]

YARRR!

 

[angry monkey]

Ahoy

I may be a barnacle kissin' fool fer sayin' it. But I be thinking that Captain Pbartender be derservin' of a few "Ho-Ho"s fer doin' the bestest job of translating a landlubber book like the SARRRR!D into plain an' simple Pirate talk o' any bilgle rat I've eve' had the privilage to drain a bunghole with!

Go ahead and join me if ye want, and if ye don't then may ye find yerself six leages under clutching a broken yardarm!

HO-HO!!


HO-HO!!


HO-HO!!

 

[Hypersmurf]

Damage Opponent is an opposed grapple check that deals non-lethal damage, and it replaces a normal attack.

Exactly.

And as such, it is an attack with neither a special monk weapon, nor an unarmed strike.

It deals damage equivalent to an unarmed strike, but it is not an unarmed strike.

That means a monk can take a full attack action with flurry of blows and simply use the Damage Opponent option for all of his unarmed attacks to avoid the -4 penalty.

No, he can't. All he can do as part of a flurry is attack with a special monk weapon or an unarmed strike.

Which he can do while grappling at -4 (assuming a light weapon). But he can't do something like Damage Opponent or Pin, which are not an attack with a special monk weapon or unarmed strike.

-Hyp.