The Legendary Grappling Monk

[Hypersmurf]

I have not checked, but I really doubt that any definition of unarmed strike lists it as a weapon.

WEAPON DESCRIPTIONS
Table: Weapons
Simple Weapons
Unarmed strike — 1d2 1d3 x2 — — Bludgeoning

Strike, Unarmed: An unarmed strike is always considered a light weapon.

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

If we are comparing trip to grapple, I'll skip the discussion about what kind of weapon is used, and just ask, "Don't you get to flurry with trip attacks?"

With a kama, sure.

-Hyp.

 

[Pbartender]

WEAPON DESCRIPTIONS
Table: Weapons
Simple Weapons
Unarmed Attacks
Unarmed strike — 1d2 1d3 x2 — — Bludgeoning

Strike, Unarmed: An unarmed strike is always considered a light weapon.

I fixed that for you...

 

[Hypersmurf]

I fixed that for you...

Fair enough.

It's an unarmed attack, listed under Simple Weapons, on the Table of Weapons, under the heading Weapon Descriptions.

-Hyp.

 

[angry monkey]

Don't you get to flurry with trip attacks?

With a kama, sure.

-Hyp.

What about with an unarmed strike?

Or for that matter, since this is about monk combat, lets run the gauntlet -
(A PUN, FIRST THING IN THE MORNING! I'M STILL IN MY UNDERWEAR!)

Which of these actions cannot be performed with a monks flurry?
disarm
feint
grapple (ok, don't answer...)
sunder
trip

Previous to this post, I thought they all could. Now I'm on the fence with grapple, (and I don't like the grass on the side that I'm leaning toward. It's filled with little guys three apples high.)

Just to add to our list of things we don't really like about the SRD, it seems that grapple is the only action that doesn't have an action associated with it. All the others are described as standard actions, or attacks, etc.

 

[Hypersmurf]

What about with an unarmed strike?

I say no.

You can trip with a weapon, if it's a weapon that states it can trip. If you don't have a weapon that states it can trip, you can trip someone as an unarmed attack that provokes an AoO.

The description of the weapon, unarmed strike, does not say it can trip. Therefore, if the weapon you are using is unarmed strike, you can't use it to trip; instead, you trip as an unarmed attack that provokes an AoO.

Since this is a Trip not using a weapon, you are attacking with neither an unarmed strike nor a special monk weapon, and therefore can't do it as part of a Flurry.

If you're tripping with a kama, on the other hand, you're attacking with a special monk weapon... hence, flurryable.

Which of these actions cannot be performed with a monks flurry?
disarm
feint
grapple (ok, don't answer...)
sunder
trip

Disarm, no problem, with an unarmed strike or special monk weapon.

A feint is a standard action (or move action, with Improved Feint). Can't be part of a Flurry.

Sunder... well, that's debated. According to the table of action types in the PHB, it's a standard action, so it can't be part of a full attack action, and hence can't be part of a flurry. (It's not Action Type: Varies, and it doesn't have footnote 7.) The FAQ gives a reason for it being listed as a standard action that doesn't hold water, but goes on to say it can be part of a full attack action (which would mean it could be part of a flurry, if you're sundering with unarmed strikes or special monk weapons).

Trip - if the weapon you're using is a/ a weapon that can be used to trip, and b/ an unarmed strike or special monk weapon. From the PHB, that means 'kama'.

-Hyp.

 

[angry monkey]

Beaten by a Kiwi

Well, I gave up the hope of being right a few posts ago, but wanted to keep this going until I fully believed what you said. And now I do, so I can honestly say that I was the most correct when I said that I was bummed to be disagreeing with you since you are usually right on target, rules wise.

I even checked 3.0 errata, hoping to contradict you.

Anyhow, thanks for going all the way through this till I understood, it was quite helpful for me...