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[+] The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power - SPOILERS ALLOWED

We have every reason to believe there will be bits and pieces from The Silmarrilion that Amazon has negotiated the specific rights to use for this series.
As i pointed out up thread

““We have the rights solely to The Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers, The Return of the King, the appendices, and The Hobbit. And that is it. We do not have the rights to The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, The History of Middle-Earth, or any of those other books…We worked in conjunction with world-renowned Tolkien scholars and the Tolkien estate to make sure that the ways we connected the dots were Tolkien-ian and gelled with the experts’ and the estate’s understanding of the material.”

If it's not in those then it's not in the show.
 

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Zardnaar

Legend
Hot take. Never manged to even finish the first book as I found it's boring.

I liked the Jackson movies well enough but wouldn't exactly say they're the greatest movies ever.

If the shows fun for the casuals it will be right. If it's crap we know what's gonna get the blame.
 

But the chronology problem is huge. I spent a lot of time trying to think of how to square that circle and I just don't see a good answer. If they stuck to the original timeline, they would either a) have to skip the forging of the Rings, b) skip Sauron's defeat by the Last Alliance, or c) focus exclusively on elf protagonists and swap out the rest of the cast each season. None of those leads to a compelling story.

You make a good point, but I think c) would make an extremely compelling story. It would be a very good way to explain the attitude of many elves toward the shorter-living races and certainly provide an inspiration on how to roleplay the attachement and relationship a creature living for thousands of year can form with century-long humans. "Why bother with them, they won't be in the next season, and in the next episode I'll be dealing with their son at best..." It would probably not sell a lot, though, with the human cast doing only cameos and introducing themselves as "X, grandson of Y that was your friend in, remember, last episode!"

(And let's be honest, Tolkien's chronologies could get pretty absurd. Much as I love LotR, it was a major culprit in inspiring fantasy timelines where basically nothing changes for thousands of years. I suspect that Tolkien himself would have done something similar if he'd ever set out to write a novel--not a Silmarillion-type collection of legends but a novel like the Hobbit or LotR--set in the Second Age.)

This is true. "DM: You arrive at the ruins of XYZ, a giant citadel destroyed 12,000 years ago..." "Player 1 : That's Babylon, right?" "Player 2: no, Babylon was only 6,000ish, that's Gobekli Tepe material..." "DM: err, no actually it is still extremely fine, thanks to, mmm, well... extremely sturdy giant architecture. (frantically removes all reference to wooden doors from the notes and writing adamantium instead"

Unless the elves are extremely conservative and unchanging to the point of being inhuman as well.
 

As i pointed out up thread

““We have the rights solely to The Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers, The Return of the King, the appendices, and The Hobbit. And that is it. We do not have the rights to The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, The History of Middle-Earth, or any of those other books…We worked in conjunction with world-renowned Tolkien scholars and the Tolkien estate to make sure that the ways we connected the dots were Tolkien-ian and gelled with the experts’ and the estate’s understanding of the material.”

If it's not in those then it's not in the show.

Why would they just make a deal for the rest?
 


Mercurius

Legend
Others have pointed out why the criticisms of "fan fiction" is bad, but if it IS fan fiction, it's fan fiction that's costing a billion dollars... I think that makes it a little bit more notable than something someone made in their backyard.

On a more serious note, it's not fan fiction. Pretty sure the definition of ff is it can't be made for profit, and this show clearly is designed to get lots of signups for Prime (I dunno if it'll actually make it's money back, but still).

It's the same reason you can't call House of the Dragon fan fiction, when it is adapting material that also hasn't been entirely written out (with dialogue).
But those are two very different things. House of the Dragon has the creator of the world and stories alive for consultation - and really, more than that (not sure if he's writing any of it, like he did GoT).

But sure, we can quibble technical definitions of the term "fan fiction." But whether or not I'm using the term correctly, my point was that Rings of Power feels to me a lot further away from Tolkien than Jackson's LotR. But only time will tell, and I'm sure people will have different views.
 

ART!

Deluxe Unhuman
As i pointed out up thread

““We have the rights solely to The Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers, The Return of the King, the appendices, and The Hobbit. And that is it. We do not have the rights to The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, The History of Middle-Earth, or any of those other books…We worked in conjunction with world-renowned Tolkien scholars and the Tolkien estate to make sure that the ways we connected the dots were Tolkien-ian and gelled with the experts’ and the estate’s understanding of the material.”

If it's not in those then it's not in the show.
There's rights, which they have purchased, and then there's permissions, which they can (and - as I understand - have) negotiate.
 

There's rights, which they have purchased, and then there's permissions, which they can (and - as I understand - have) negotiate.

Yep, any rights to The Hobbit or LotR books are long gone and owned by Saul Zaentz/Middle-Earth Enterprises. The Tolkien Estate has zero say in what is done with them. It is all the rest of Tolkien's work that they will not sell, but as you say, will negotiate temporary use.
 

Mallus

Legend
I’m amused by all the people who seem to have forgotten that prior to the release of Jackson’s trilogy, he was best known for zombie gore comedies and a movie that ends with Kate Winslet helping her girlfriend bash her mom’s brains in with a rock. Not exactly the guy you’d trust with the Silver Flame of Anor, and yet...

My biggest problem with the trailer is it looks too much like Wheel of Time. Which of course it does. Which isn’t an aesthetic failure, rather a timing one (I really can’t fathom why Amazon decided to debut the Tolkien clone first).

On the other hand, the Black elf is causing the right people to suffer, which I admit I really enjoy!
 
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There's rights, which they have purchased, and then there's permissions, which they can (and - as I understand - have) negotiate.
don't mean to be condescending but citation please all I'm finding is the quote from Varerity's interview. This seems to be the most in-depth info I can find Lord of The Rings and the Complicated World of Tolkien's Posthumous Work

full quote
So what did Amazon buy? “We have the rights solely to The Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers, The Return of the King, the appendices, and The Hobbit,” Payne says. “And that is it. We do not have the rights to The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, The History of Middle-earth, or any of those other books.” That takes a huge chunk of lore off the table and has left Tolkien fans wondering how this duo plans to tell a Second Age story without access to those materials. “There’s a version of everything we need for the Second Age in the books we have the rights to,” McKay says. “As long as we’re painting within those lines and not egregiously contradicting something we don’t have the rights to, there’s a lot of leeway and room to dramatize and tell some of the best stories that [Tolkien] ever came up with.”

“We took all these little clues and thought of them as stars in the sky that we then connected to write the novel that Tolkien never wrote about the Second Age,” Payne says. The duo cites songs like “The Fall of Gil-galad” or “The Song of Eärendil” or Fellowship chapters like “The Council of Elrond” and “The Shadow of the Past” or the “Concerning Hobbits” section of the prologue as sources for significant lore dumps. Beyond the premiere, there aren’t, however, any significant time jumps or, thus far, episode-long journeys to the past. The rights to the First Age material from The Silmarillion are still owned by the Tolkien estate.

“We worked in conjunction with world-renowned Tolkien scholars and the Tolkien estate to make sure that the ways we connected the dots were Tolkienian and gelled with the experts’ and the estate’s understanding of the material,” Payne says.
 
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