The love/hate relationship for DM's.

[Kzach]

I love 4e. It has its flaws, but for me it is the game system I've been wanting for twenty years. A big reason why I love it so much is that as a DM, I like to run games pretty much on the fly with only a general idea of what's going to happen and why and where. I like to give the players the cues to follow a plot, but ultimately they do it however they want and go wherever they want.

I think this is described as the sandbox method.

Whatever the case, I'm really finding 4e to be conducive to this kind of play-style and I'm getting really excited about running a full-blown campaign for the first time in a good ten years. I also love it as a player as I find it a lot of fun and far more engaging than previous editions.

So with that all said, I just now realised that the potential is there for me to really hate what players might pull out of their hats at higher levels. This came about as I was tinkering with a 12th-level character of mine and hit upon a very nasty set of actions that I could pull off.

I won't go into too much detail. Suffice to say that a brutal rogue shadow assassin (shadow assassin's riposte) with riposte strike, deadly positioning and trick strike could make life extremely painful for even a solo in a DM's campaign. That rogue would wanna have damn high defences 'cause after pulling off a stunt like this, I know I'd be (as the NPC, I don't take things personally in game, that's just silly) pissed off and targeting him with all I had

I'm thinking this is not the only possible combination of manoeuvres out there that are perfectly legal and, not really broken, just... freakin' uber!

Last session (with me as a player) we had a pretty awesome set of circumstances against the end boss. The end boss targeted me with an uber attack and the ranger used Disruptive Strike to thwart the attack. Then the DM used the NPC's action point and rolled the attack again, at which point I used Shield and thwarted another attack and made him waste an action point.

I thought that was very cool as a player. But as a DM, man that would've had me boiling

 

[Engilbrand]

I'll agree that 4th is fun to DM. I only DMed a bit of 3.5, but I knew enough to quickly decide that I hated it. With 4th, though, I DM it like I teach. I know what I want to do and where I want to go, but I let the players direct me.
I haven't written down anything for the campaign since the initial background information. The other day, I spent some time looking at monsters and thinking about where they were. When only 2 players showed up, we ended up running through a number of interesting and difficult encounters. It was a Dragonborn Paladin with a Greataxe and an Infernal Elven Warlock.
It's fairly obvious that I don't plan things, but we've all been having a great time. The mere fact that I'm enjoying DMing surprises the hell out of me.

They do occasionally destroy things faster than I would like. Infernal Warlocks are ridiculously nasty. But I've been able to do a lot of stuff to them, too. After all, there are only a few of them. A nice tunnel with enemies on both sides, or a small room at the bottom of a rope, and they suddenly look at things a lot different. I was actually able to throw 4-6 normal guys of their level at them. If the Paladin hadn't been able to use his Lay on Hands on himself, there's no way that they would have survived.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Well, If the PC's are the heroes then the monster's job is to die horribly while making the PC's look good so there is no reason to get upset. Having a particular character able to use a move combo that always works and always wins isn't a cause for anger, its just plain boring. At first it will be very exciting for the player while the DM just sighs and moves on but eventually even the player may get bored with a one trick pony. If the player is always trying to "win" by dominating the action then the problem is worse. Eventually the rest of the group will experience extreme unfun and the uber move player may throw a fit if his toy gets taken away.

.........Yeah I have seen this in action.

It really depends on ALL participants being on the same page about what makes a good game.

 

[wedgeski]

I rambled about this a bit in my blog, but essentially, watching the PC's thwart my biggest attacks is absolutely great fun... as long as I know I've done everything I can to make the encounter a challenge for them. That's what I see myself there for in combat situations: provide a challenge, maybe with a thrill or two if I'm lucky.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I rambled about this a bit in my blog, but essentially, watching the PC's thwart my biggest attacks is absolutely great fun... as long as I know I've done everything I can to make the encounter a challenge for them. That's what I see myself there for in combat situations: provide a challenge, maybe with a thrill or two if I'm lucky.

I hate it when an encounter didn't feel challenging that was supposed to be. I like it when my players come up with something - be it a plan or just a clever use of class abilities - that makes them beat a challenge in an unexpected way.

 

[Kzach]

In fairness to the situation I was thinking of, it would require successful attacks for three daily abilities. And even then, it's not a guarantee of uberness, just really painful if it all comes together. Basically, either the enemy attacks and cops a lot of damage for his trouble, or can't attack at all (depending on hits and misses of both participants).

Basically I meant this in fun. I can see a lot of DM "WTF?" moments happening as there are many unique abilities and combinations that can really put a DM's toys on the spot... and skewer them horribly

 

[CleverNickName]

I love 4e. It has its flaws, but for me it is the game system I've been wanting for twenty years. A big reason why I love it so much is that as a DM, I like to run games pretty much on the fly with only a general idea of what's going to happen and why and where. I like to give the players the cues to follow a plot, but ultimately they do it however they want and go wherever they want.

I think this is described as the sandbox method.

I'd just like to point out that this playstyle is not unique to 4E. I've been DMing this way for two decades, even in 3.x edition.

 

[Kzach]

I'd just like to point out that this playstyle is not unique to 4E. I've been DMing this way for two decades, even in 3.x edition.

Congratulations, so have I.

Have a cookie.

 

[Shabe]

Basically I meant this in fun. I can see a lot of DM "WTF?" moments happening as there are many unique abilities and combinations that can really put a DM's toys on the spot... and skewer them horribly

Yes but as a DM you also get more than your fair share of toys, at least one or two a session are going to work, be it deflecting an attack onto an adjacent monster, shifting in response to triggers, blowing off a save ends effect straight away, and those all suitable monsters for a 2nd (possibly 1st) level party.