The major changes at WOTC

[Lela]

Isn't it amazing how ignorant people are about business. Until the industrial revolution many of the basic things that people take for granted now didn't exist. I am talking about things like having a childhood and retiring. Before the industrial revolution if you were not rich you started working in the fields or at an apprenticeship (if you were lucky) before the age of 10 and you did not stop working until you were dead. Not to mention that work hours were a minimum of 12 hours a day 6 days a week. Farmers worked from dawn till dusk. If it wasn't for business there would be no such thing has the middle class.

Actually, the industrial revolution didn't change this. Instead of working on the farms, kids worked in the factory. Instead of being with their parants and siblings, they were wherever the boss told them to be. Instead of out in the sunshine and open air, they (the kids) were covered in greese and soot or in slime and bactera. Instead of growing grain or sheering sheep, they were pushing piles of rats, insectaside, and mud into sassage. Instead of being able to grow enough food to avoid hunger, they made just bearly enough to let them survive--and only just.

The industrial revolution didn't change any of what you mentioned, not even creating a middle class. In fact, the early stages only expanded the distance between the upper and lower class--changing the name noble to manager and peasent to worker.
Even the term lower class changed--to working class.

Now, I don't hate big business, not as much as the others here--though I do have a problem with Microsoft (anyone who has been using Word Perfect for the last 5 to 10 years will undeerstand)--but be careful of the things you associate with business. Many of them didn't happen until much later.

Also, let me mention that farmers (and their kids) only worked dawn-tel-dusk during planting and harvesting. The rest of the year was much shorter--often giving youth a chance to play with their friends or meet girls. Life wasn't easy, but it wasn't as joyless as you make it out to be.

For instance, if you had a benevalent Noble over you, one who wasn't too greedy or selfish, one who wanted to protect his people, one who wasn't heartless or cruel, you could have a wonderful life. Just like if you have an exec who is wonderful, your life can be the same way.

 

[King_Stannis]

Actually, the industrial revolution didn't change this. Instead of working on the farms, kids worked in the factory. Instead of being with their parants and siblings, they were wherever the boss told them to be. Instead of out in the sunshine and open air, they (the kids) were covered in greese and soot or in slime and bactera. Instead of growing grain or sheering sheep, they were pushing piles of rats, insectaside, and mud into sassage. Instead of being able to grow enough food to avoid hunger, they made just bearly enough to let them survive--and only just.

The industrial revolution didn't change any of what you mentioned, not even creating a middle class. In fact, the early stages only expanded the distance between the upper and lower class--changing the name noble to manager and peasent to worker.
Even the term lower class changed--to working class....

i hope you are not implying that the lower class was better off BEFORE the industrial revolution? please tell me you're not arguing such a ridiculous point.

 

[RingXero]

i hope you are not implying that the lower class was better off BEFORE the industrial revolution? please tell me you're not arguing such a ridiculous point.

No, what (s)he is saying is that the Industrial Revolution itself did not change the status quo, in fact it worsened it in some regards initially, the laws that came about after the industrial revolution began, and because of it, made everything 'better'.

see the child labor laws, pension plans, etc..., these came about after the 'revolution' began, not at the same time.



RX

 

[Staffan]

One thing that does give big business a bad name is when upper management gets themselves big benefits at the expense of the working stiffs, something which seems to be getting more and more common. For example, Sweden's biggest corporation is Ericsson - reasonably big internationally in the telecom industry. OK, the telecom industry is not going so well at the moment, so they're taking heavy losses, downsizing and reorganizing. However, in the midst of all this downsizing, upper management *increase* their own salaries by quite a lot - far more than the average salary increases. This *really* irks a lot of people, and gives corporate executives a bad name.

This appears to be a general trend. I don't have any hard numbers, but at least here in Sweden the salaries of high-level executives have increased far more during the 90s than those of regular workers. I don't think anyone is arguing that the CEO of a multi-million-dollar corporation shouldn't earn more than the guys on the factory floors, but why should the big guy, who already makes like 100 times the money the regular workers do, get a 15% raise while the working guy only gets 3%?

The problem is heightened here in Sweden, because Sweden has a relatively small pool of management types. It's not uncommon that one company has Mr. A as CEO and Mr. B as chairman of the board, whereas another has Mr. B as CEO and Mr. A as chairman. Most of the time, the salary and fringe benefits of the CEO is negotiated between the CEO and chairman, and it's easy to see that the situation above could devolve into a "I scratch your back and you scratch mine" situation.

 

[Ysgarran]

Re: Re: Re: I'm with the king...

I am not seeing the connection between anger with a company to increased white-collar crime. Understood, a disgruntled employee is probably more likely to steal than a content employee.
GK

I wasn't trying to make a connection with anger at corporate america and an increase in white collar crime. I was pointing out that is likely that we will see more white collar crime in the future because of other factors. With that increase increase we will read more about in the newspapers. With that there will be more of a backlash against various corporate shenanigans. More of crime causing anger rather than anger causing crime.

Secondly, I believe if a fast food cashier had the same benefits of all of the executives of that enterprise, said enterprise would cease to exist in a very short period.

I would never suggest that everyone should be payed the same. What I would like to see is a higher correlation between the failure and/or success of a company and the pay that executives get. It galls me to no end when a company files for bankruptcy and the CEO in charge walks away with 300$ million dollars in his pocket for a job well done.

I would like to see changes in the way profit and stock options are dealt with in a companies SEC filings. Currently stock options can be handed out to executives without an adequate way for stock holders to know the impact on the bottom line. This is because stock options are not reported as an expense even though stock options have a diluting effect on stocks value.

 

[Ysgarran]

man, some of you people need to get down from your freaking ivory towers, take off your rose colored glasses, and join the rest of us in the real world. but i suppose watching erin brokovich interspersed with lots of porn in the basement of your parent's house is a hard life to give up.

Actually you strike me as the fellow who is not seeing the world as it truly stands. Anyone who resorts to broad generalizations without acknowledging the nuances is the one who has trouble with reality.

I think you have some valid and good points to make so please try to make them without resorting to the same generalizations that you are complaining about.

 

[seankreynolds]

{1} I think the main money issue is that the PHB, DMG, and MM all sold for about $20. And they were good quality hardback in color. They easily lasted a long time.
{2} Next come all the suppliments. These are $30, paperback, and black and white. {3} Not only that, but they seem to always need some major errata, as much as the entire PHB, and it's only a quarter of the size. {4} They don't follow the same format (are the spells in the front, back or middle?) and almost require the web suppliment (TaB anyone?).

1. The 3 core books could have been priced at $30, but were priced at $20 for one big reason: to reduce the barrier of entry for 3E from $90 to $60. At the minimum, it means that a 2E player could pick a 3E PH for $20 and check it out, and if they didn't like it they only had spent $20. The books were profitable at $20 because of the huge print run (in excess of 200,000, I can't say precisely), but you were basically getting an automatic $10 discount on the book because WotC wanted you to try them out. So when you compare the core books to other books, think of them as $30 books, not $20 books.

2. First, books like S&F, DotF, and the others are $20, not $30. Second, they had a much smaller print run (closer to 50,000-100,000, half or less of the core book print run), which means they had a higher cost per unit and so WotC had to charge a higher price relative to the size. So a comparison to the core books isn't entirely fair.

3. The splatbooks were much smaller than the core books and had a shorter development time (it takes 3 months to write a splatbook, not counting editing and such, compared to the 2 years that went into the core books) which means less time for playtesting. Unfortunate, but true.
What's even worse is that with the cutbacks in WotC staff, they have even less time to do playtesting now. They have been using the RPGA members as playtesters but the system doesn't have enough "elite" playtesters yet to provide the sort of feedback needed.
So yes, these books have been needing errata, although I wouldn't say it's as much as the PH.

4. I agree, the splatbooks could use some consistent structure for what chapters go where.

 

[seankreynolds]

Personally I don't think it too much to ask to have a product that you pay Twenty-Five to Thirty bucks for not to have a web enhancment or erata sheet.

I'll point out (as others have) just to make sure it's seen: a web enhancement is not errata. It it usally extra goodies for the book that were cut out for space reasons, or (like the web enhancements for the FRCS, Faiths & Pantheons, and Silver Marches) were contracted independantly for the web by the WotC web team. A web enhancement is a _good_ thing; you should be happy to see one.

 

[seankreynolds]

Well I could site many occurances, like ... the The time a fellow coordinator asked one of the top designers at WOTC a simple question at last years Gen Con. His reply was "You know I really don't know, and more importantly I don't care." I could list others but whats the point.

Out of curiousity, who was this WotC designer? Or (more to the point) was it me, and what were they asking about?

As for Seans rebuke, it wasnt really what I was refering to. Sean's a real people person being called a Dumbass by him is like being called a liberal by Ron Silver.

Oh, I'm a real people person as long as the person I'm talking to isn't being a dumbass. (just teasing)
If I were a jerk all the time, there would be nobody visiting my message boards.

 

[Keith_Strohm]

All,

Just a quick note on the belief that only the namelesss, faceless, evil corporate puppet masters influence pricing and "quality" decisions on product. When I worked as the D&D brand manager, and later the Director of RPGs and Miniatures, all pricing and decisions came from my team of business and brand managers. Unless something really bizarre has happened in the three months that I have left, these decisions are still made by Anthony Valterra and, by extension, Mary Kirchoff who is Anthony's boss.

Certainly, the executives higher than Mary can determine margin and profitability targets, but Anthony's team pretty much has a number of potential options if these targets are reset. A good business manager will examine them all before making a decision, but the RPG team has the final call--unless something extraordinary were to occur. But it would be just that--extraordinary.

If for some reason, this practice has changed, I'd say that there are probably specific issues that need to be addressed.

Keith Strohm
Director of Communication
Sabertooth Games