D&D 5E The Minimum* to Keep 5E at a Low Power Level?

[doctorbadwolf]

In my Eberron game I’ve had to adjust at times to keep the game challenging, especially because we just can’t do long sessions often and our playstyle just doesn’t lend itself to long adventuring days.

I find that a few things on the DM side do the trick, for me.

• Every enemy has comparable ability scores and proficiency bonus to the PCs. My group tends toward high stats due to generous rolling rules, but even using point buy, monsters tend to have garbage ability score compared to PCs. Mooks often have lower numbers still, but even they get a few +1s
• They all have at least 4 skill proficiencies and 2 save proficiencies
• Significant enemies have either key feat features, or comparable unique traits.
• If a fight isn’t deadly, the encounter instead focuses on challenging in terms of accomplishing a story objective, etc

I do hazards and other non-combat atm

Also check out Matt colvile and the dungeon dudes.

 

[aco175]

My table has generally had no feats in the game, or at least none of the big fighting feats like GWM or PAM. This seems to keep the damage down from the melee PCs. We also just play the PHB races and classes to the most part. This seems to allow me to add cool items for flavor without thinking it will be a game changer. I mean if the PC is dealing 1d12+30 at third level I see where it is unbalanced, but a +1 weapon might not change much. Give him the option of it being a longsword only dealing 1d8 instead of 1d12.

 

[Retreater]

Would they consent (or more accurately, their parents would consent) to you recording the sessions and then uploading them somewhere? We would be better able to offer advice if we could see precisely what you're doing...

I don't think that's an option due to various issues, but I can probably recreate the experience pretty vividly through writing. I'll try to do that as time allows.

 

[FrozenNorth]

I think the most important thing is correctly identifying what is causing the characters to feel overpowered.

Here are some possible solutions.

• Monsters are proficient in all saving throws;
• Monsters have max hp for their type, rather than average hp;
• Ditch magical items that directly improve combat skill in favour of items that allow players to broaden possible actions;
• Ditch feats that don’t do anything but improve the players in combat;
• I use the proficiency dice variant in the DMG, but start with a d6 instead of a d4. However, the proficiency die increases only once, at level 11, to a d8. For spell DCs, you can either roll each time or just take the average.

 

[Retreater]

What sort of feedback about the gritty rest mechanics are you getting? Is the issue conceptual (doesn't make sense that you don't get spells back each day) or based on the power that the characters will lose? Have you pointed out that there is little effective difference between gritty rest and just running more encounters per day? Have you got pushback for suggesting more encounters per day?

The complaint is that it's hamstringing their characters and makes the game "not fun."
I've also suggested the A5E idea of needing to get to a truly safe rest area for a long rest. Also shot down.
The pushback for adding multiple encounters is when I put something in front of them, and they know a fight is going to be somewhere, they leave and take a rest - even under the threat of consequences. "Oh well, the captives might be sacrificed." Or "oh well, the town guards might come try to arrest us for destroying this resident's house and killing him - even though we know he was evil but the town didn't know that."

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

The complaint is that it's hamstringing their characters and makes the game "not fun."
I've also suggested the A5E idea of needing to get to a truly safe rest area for a long rest. Also shot down.
The pushback for adding multiple encounters is when I put something in front of them, and they know a fight is going to be somewhere, they leave and take a rest - even under the threat of consequences. "Oh well, the captives might be sacrificed." Or "oh well, the town guards might come try to arrest us for destroying this resident's house and killing him - even though we know he was evil but the town didn't know that."

Well, in this case is more of a problem.

If they want to have a pure, free-form, power fantasy, good on them. But you are not forced to be the one giving it to them if that doesnt not interest you.

Its like when I played BG when I was younger and rolled my stats until I got an 18 in 5 stats and spammed rest by barely covering the combat zone with the game's fog of war.

Or when I play hero and villain with my 5 y.o son. He's got all the powers of all the Avengers, and he's a spy/firefighter/ninja, but when I, as a villain, choose a single power to challenge him, I'm the one cheating a being unfair.

 

[DEFCON 1]

You said you don't want to restructure the game or redesign monsters after 5th level or so. Unfortunately, I am going to suggest that restructuring monsters is going to be the only thing that works. Because like you just mentioned above... anything you do to try and curtail PC power will just result in the players doing whatever they can to minimize that curtail. You use gritty rest? They will find ways to return to town more often to come back to the adventure at full strength. You greatly minimize the number of magic items you give out? They will quite possibly find the game less interesting and not be interested in adventuring without suitable rewards.

So really, anything you do to make things more challenging needs to be on your side of the screen. Because it's the only thing you have complete control over.

However, that being said... there are ways to "redesign" monsters that are not painful to do... especially if you find your players always seem to greatly overpower whatever you throw at them. I will suggest something that admittedly I have never tested myself... but seems to me to be the easiest thing to do that will provide the most success in what you are looking for.

You build your encounters in your regular way, however it is you usually do it. Then once you have your monster pool you do three things:

1) Up their HP to Maximum (rather than the average the book gives you).

2) Double the monster's Attack roll number. Most monster with CRs in the 1/8th to CR 8 range have attack bonuses around +3 to +8. With PCs easily able to get ACs upwards of 18-22 after armor and shields and magic bonuses from spells and whatnot... having attack bonuses instead be doubled and between +6 to +16 is just going to allow you to give out more hits without needing to add additional hits more often.

3) Double the damage statistic of the monster. So if a monster normally does 1d6+3 piercing damage... it now does 2d6+6. Or if it does 3d4+3 necrotic, it does 6d4+6 necrotic. And if the monster crits... then it's doubled again. Now that might seem like a lot... but with 6-7 players you will have probably 2 to 4 PCs that have healing magic at their disposal and thus they will be able to keep themselves on their feet no matter how bad you smack them around. But even if they can't... they will learn quickly that they may have to change tactics if suddenly fights aren't cakewalks anymore.

Those are the three things that you can do easily at the table right as every encounter starts-- calculate their Max HP, double the attack bonus, and double the damage. Do that and I think you will find fights to be a little more even. However... if even that doesn't solve your problem and your monsters are still going down easy... there are a couple additional things I would recommend:

4) Every monster you throw down on the table has Pack Tactics. Meaning that any time two monsters are adjacent to an enemy in melee... they both have Advantage on their attacks. Which will let them hit more often and avoids you having to give monsters more attacks or put more monsters on the board just to have enough attacks available to all the PCs.

5) Create a generic Ranged attack and a generic AoE attack that you can give to any and all applicable monsters that do not have any on their monster statblocks. However it is you wish to fluff them-- bows/crossbows/javelins for the Ranged, and Molotov cocktail or large vial of acid for the AoE... you HAVE to give your monsters as many opportunities to hit the PCs that stay out of melee more often. So just create a generic attack statblock that you keep at hand (for example: Ranged attack: +10, 2d8+6 piercing damage) and just add it to any monsters that might use it / need it. And then fluff the attack however it makes sense.

Good luck!

 

[J-H]

The complaint is that it's hamstringing their characters and makes the game "not fun."
I've also suggested the A5E idea of needing to get to a truly safe rest area for a long rest. Also shot down.
The pushback for adding multiple encounters is when I put something in front of them, and they know a fight is going to be somewhere, they leave and take a rest - even under the threat of consequences. "Oh well, the captives might be sacrificed." Or "oh well, the town guards might come try to arrest us for destroying this resident's house and killing him - even though we know he was evil but the town didn't know that."

Oh well, you don't get paid because you didn't rescue the captives. Also, your rooms were vandalized during your dinner at the inn, and nobody saw anybody go up there with a bucket of smelly paint and write "COWARDS" on your backpacks because the 75 year old grandfather of one of the captives was busy picking a fight and daring you to hit him.

If they then attack the civilians in town or fight the city guard, they get served papers by the regional government to show up for judgement. If they ignore that, the game is now "evade the bounty hunters."

They're treating it like a video game where the NPCs follow a programmed set of reactions and their choices don't have repercussions. You're going to have to change that. Give them a few "Are you sure you want to do that?" moments as warnings.


Also, the above scenario seems like a good adventure hook: "There's this group of freelancers who failed, got mad when the town was upset, trashed the town, evaded the law, and no need to be hunted down like bandits." If they end the campaign because of that, the next campaign could be a short scenario hunting down their old characters with their new ones, and running into the Fireball/Reverse Gravity/etc. stuff.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

Create a sidequest that involves a strange underground complex which has a very important McGuffin but where gravity is already reversed. However, gravity is not reversed for the PCs. They need to use that wand on themselves in order to effectively interact with the environment and (most) creatures there. At 1 minute duration per casting, they will run into the limit of the wand's full charges pretty quickly and be subject to the roll to see if it is destroyed. As this seems to be some homebrew wand, you might say it works a bit different in this complex - each casting lasts 10 minutes and, once the charges are used up, a d4 must be rolled with the wand regaining a charge on a 2, 3, or 4 but turning into dust on a 1.

 

[Oofta]

The complaint is that it's hamstringing their characters and makes the game "not fun."
I've also suggested the A5E idea of needing to get to a truly safe rest area for a long rest. Also shot down.
The pushback for adding multiple encounters is when I put something in front of them, and they know a fight is going to be somewhere, they leave and take a rest - even under the threat of consequences. "Oh well, the captives might be sacrificed." Or "oh well, the town guards might come try to arrest us for destroying this resident's house and killing him - even though we know he was evil but the town didn't know that."

I agree with what @J-H said, and would just add that you can change the stakes. They settle in for the night? Sounds like a great time for an ambush. A dispel magic will take care of any tiny hut they put up, or any number of other options. Delay attacking? The treasure is gone or the number of guards have been tripled and a trap has been laid. The longer they take, the greater the risk up to them facing a small army because their target knew they were coming.

Don't make the mistake of assuming the opponents are static and will remain untriggered until combat starts. Don't run it like a video game where you have to enter the cave before anything happens, have logical reactions to the PCs actions or lack therein.