The miracle of wishes and stats ???

[morpheous1777]

Ok, heres my problem, my group (Im the dm) has recently achieved 17th level, now that means that our cleric can cast miracles and our wizard can cast wishes, In the ph it stats that you can use a wish/miracle to raise a stat, from +1 to +5 inherent bonus, Is there any XP cost to this ?? or can the wizard and the cleric raise the whole partys stats by up to 5 points eventually ?? arrrgggh that seems insane, so is there any errata or other cannon material around that may help me out ?? My other group members are also DMs so I dont just want to just say "you can't do that".

 

[Magus_Jerel]

For the purposes of the miracle spell - a +1 inherent bonus constitutes a "powerful request". - so it does cost xp, 5000 xp.

Wish - whenever cast - cost 5000 xp a shot.

In order to get an inherent bonus of greater than +1 - you have to cast the wish/miracle spells in rapid succession (my own ruling is within one round of each other)

There is some fairly exacting information on this somewhere - exactly where I don't know.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Actually, nowhere in the spell description of Miracle does it state the spell is capable of raising an ability score. Because of the similarities between Miracle and Wish as far as spell-mimicry, many believe it should have that power, but the rules do not support such an assertion. If it does have that power, that use of Miracle would fall under the "powerful request" clause--as pointed out by Magus_Jerel--and cost 5000XP. And that's assuming that you allow Miracle to grant ability raises at all. Wish does explicitly state it can grant ability raises, but is always a flat 5000XP.

So basically, with Wish the XP limit already keeps a lid on abusing the spell.

With Miracle the solution is just as easy. Either disallow the spell to raise stats at all (and simply refer your players to the spell description--where it doesn't state the spell has that power--if they argue,) or if you do allow it, charge them 5000XP, just like a Wish.

In many ways, Miracle is actually the easier of the two spells to adjucate. Since any use of the spell beyond what's listed explicitly in the spell description becomes a "request to the cleric's diety," you can simply declare that the diety's answer was "No."