The Misunderstood Paladin

[Sejs]

Arnwyn: I think you might be wrong here - IIRC, PHB paladins don't even need a god.

Paladin class, religeon section: "A paladin need not devote herself to a single diety - devotion to righteousness is enough."


Similar in concept to how you can have a cleric of No God In Particular. You don't have to be a devotee of Shabadoo the God of Healing - if you've got the devotion to go out and do the right thing, then the powers that be just see to it that you get your domains, spells and so forth. No purchase necessary.

 

[Stalker0]

Looking at the BOED, which in some ways is the manual of paladin alignment since paladin's code is close to exalted it mentions that ends do NOT justify the means. Evil ways for good purposes is evil... plain and simple.

In the end, its the dm's responsibility to make every player and class feel important. That means helping the paladin out. Make it where the fact that they choose the good path, even in the face of allowing a greater evil to win will eventually turn out to be the greater good.


Instead of looking at it as.. paladin's are so restricted that the bad guys always can get away and that paladin's suck. Look at it as... paladin's are great and the bad guys don't always win... so there must be some power to that always do good thing.

 

[Squire James]

Even if you're not allowed to lie, a paladin could still "exaggerate", as Spock might put it.

Evil Town Guard: "Are you a paladin?"

Paladin: "I am a warrior with a great thirst for your town's ale."

Evil Town Guard: "Lord Darkness has commanded me to detain anyone who won't say 'no' to that question."

Paladin: "Ah. I was unaware the rule was so strict. No, I am not someone your lord should be detaining."

(Eventually, the paladin will roll a high enough Diplomacy check to "Jedi" his way in.)

 

[wally]

lying?

It seems like some people really get hung up on the lying thing. Just because a paladin can't lie(if you play him that way) doesn't mean he always tells everyone the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

There are many instances where he can get by without lying while the truth is not revealed.

From a movie example, when the 'good guy' is being questioned/tortured to reveal whatever it is the bad guy wants, does he come right out and say? Nope. He refuses to answer, usually prompting more torture. He certainly isn't lying. It also would be proper for a paladin to endure pain on behalf of others (again, if you are playing that type of paladin).

Just a thought.

-wally

Squire James hit on it....

 

[kigmatzomat]

I highly recommend reading "The War God's Own" and "Oath of Swords" by David Weber. It's an excellent example of an unlikely paladin who argues with the gods and turns the world on its ear. I use Bahzell Banekson as my role-model when running an ogre paladin.

It is, imnsho, one of the best fantasy settings to come out in decades. If I had the time I'd beg Weber to let me convert his world to d20.

 

[Arnwyn]

Paladin class, religeon section: "A paladin need not devote herself to a single diety - devotion to righteousness is enough."

Thanks, Sejs! I knew it was in there.

 

[Silveras]

Even if you're not allowed to lie, a paladin could still "exaggerate", as Spock might put it.

Evil Town Guard: "Are you a paladin?"

Paladin: "I am a warrior with a great thirst for your town's ale."

Evil Town Guard: "Lord Darkness has commanded me to detain anyone who won't say 'no' to that question."

Paladin: "Ah. I was unaware the rule was so strict. No, I am not someone your lord should be detaining."

(Eventually, the paladin will roll a high enough Diplomacy check to "Jedi" his way in.)

Hmm... a perfect example of a fallen Paladin. Lying by omission or evasion is still lying. A Paladin is a stalwart defender of his/her faith (whether a deity or a philosophy), and proudly announces that in defiance of Evil.

 

[wally]

Hmm... a perfect example of a fallen Paladin. Lying by omission or evasion is still lying. A Paladin is a stalwart defender of his/her faith (whether a deity or a philosophy), and proudly announces that in defiance of Evil.

How did he lie?

If you are asked a question and you don't answer that question, is that a lie?

-wally

 

[Sejs]

Hmm... a perfect example of a fallen Paladin. Lying by omission or evasion is still lying. A Paladin is a stalwart defender of his/her faith (whether a deity or a philosophy), and proudly announces that in defiance of Evil.

Which would explain why the average life expectancy of paladins is around 3 months, after they take up the mantle and sword.


I assume all paladins come with a Phylacrity of Faithfulness, aka the Angry God-o-Meter, as bonus starting equipment then?

 

[wally]

Even if you're not allowed to lie, a paladin could still "exaggerate", as Spock might put it.

Evil Town Guard: "Are you a paladin?"

Paladin: "I am a warrior with a great thirst for your town's ale."

Evil Town Guard: "Lord Darkness has commanded me to detain anyone who won't say 'no' to that question."

Paladin: "Ah. I was unaware the rule was so strict. No, I am not someone your lord should be detaining."

(Eventually, the paladin will roll a high enough Diplomacy check to "Jedi" his way in.)

Actually, I just thought of this and it made me laugh:

Evil Town Guard: "Are you a paladin?"

Paladin: "No, I am a warrior of virtue and wielder of justice in the name of my god who has chosen me as one to defend the weak and seek to destroy evil."

Evil Town Guard: "Lord Darkness has commanded me to detain anyone who won't say 'no' to that question."

Paladin: "Well, off I go. By the way what is this 'Pal-uh-den' you speak of?"

Does that mean the paladin in question is really a liar and should lose all of his abilities?

-wally