D&D 5E The Monetization of D&D and other Role Playing Games

Rabbitbait

Adventurer
Adventures for 5E, at least since about 2015/16, have been 100% "written to read" rather than "written to run", for example, because they're not aiming at DMs who are actually necessarily going to run them, but rather collectors and readers. And that's the least of it.

I totally disagree. The 5e adventures I have run (and I've been DMing since 1980) have been the best written for playing of any edition. 2e had some absolute shockers.

My top adventures of all time would be Tomb of Annihilation followed by Lost Mines of Phandelver. Excellent work and made to be played.
 

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What exactly is consumerism, collecting, and exchange in the context of this discussion? If you're using it in the derogatory sense that we're overly concerned with acquiring consumer goods, then collecting seems superfluous here, and what is exchange even mean?
The terms are somewhat synonymous in the OP. With collecting, I was specifically thinking of the discussions that were had around Chaosium's NFT gambit, and how the culture of collecting in the hobby (and others) and the fear of missing out perhaps encouraged Chaosium initially (i.e. until the backlash).


I am told in threads on this very board that D&D is very much still a DIY thing. That your campaign is a lot different from my campaign which is also different from another person's campaign. And as far as codification is concerned, that happened with the very first rulebook. That ship sailed a long, long time ago.
Yes, well, to wit, the Tom Van Winkle link in the OP quotes an article from Tim Kask in 1981 in which he says:
If we have become a group of consumers where will the creators come from?
FRP has always been an exercise of imagination, creativity, and extemporaneous thought, but I feel that the first two are diminishing. Granted, many who play today might not if there had been no pre-prepared adventures in which to get their feet wet. But how many of them now realize that there is another way to go?

Where's your argument that this is harmful in some way? I know you posted links to Reddit and other places, but in your own words what's the problem with this? Why should I be concerned? I haven't spent any money on the D&D deluxe products available now, but I never thought, "The availability of this product is bad for gaming." If I hadn't already run Curse of Strahd twice, I would have considered purchasing the deluxe version of that campaign.
Well I do say that perhaps my distaste is irrational. But, for the hobby as a whole (especially 5e and especially newer players) my concern is the implicit suggestion that buying more deluxe things will lead to better games and that when one buys a 5e product one is buying into a community or lifestyle. This have negative side effects, like DMs needlessly spending money on things and then being frustrated and burnout when their efforts aren't appreciated to people becoming defensive of a game because it is also their "community/lifestyle."

Which companies do you think are engaging in predatory practices? And what are those predatory practices exactly?
In the context of videogame monetization this refers to the small percentage of players who spend the most money on microtransactions, loot boxes, and the like. Videogame companies target specific personality types with their monetization mechanics and exploit the way they interact with the technology and the game to make money. Some of these people go into huge amounts of debt, losing homes etc. There is nothing comparable in ttrpgs, of course, but the larger the market gets the more we will have people trying to exploit those same characteristics in people.

D&D has been a corporate product since 1974 and during the entirety of its existence has been published in order for its owner to make a profit. And, okay, you're talking about the extreme, but why not dial it back a bit and think of some of the benefits? It's a hobby we can all pretty much enjoy with a community we can participate in.
Lots of benefits! That's why I contextualized the whole post by mentioning all the great products I have sitting on my shelves, from so many talented and creative artists. I'm glad they are all able to make their zines and little games and get at least some funding and support, particularly some creators who are in the Global South. But many indie creators will themselves express frustration of how their creativity is so easily drowned out by larger and glossier things that are created and marketed as products.

Obviously, our little hobby is relatively innocuous in the grander scheme of things, but as it carries outsized importance to those of us in it, I think it's worth asking when creative hobbyism becomes corporate consumerism.
 

jgsugden

Legend
D&D - since the beginning - has been an "optional upgrade" game. You spend what you want to spend. We have new terminology for these tendencies, but it really isn't anything new for D&D.

In the 1980s you could easily play great D&D with nothing more than the Basic boxed set or the 3 AD&D core books and a set of dice. Or, you could buy Dragon Magazine, Dungeon Magazine, Polyhedron Magazine, Modules, Metal Miniatures, Paint, Terrain, Chessex Maps, etc....

You could spend $40 or $4000 in 1982.

I played for about 20 years with a guy that never spent a penny on the game, but played thousands and thousands of hours of D&D. I've also known players that were smitten and had a lot of money and spent several thousand dollars before they'd played 100 hours of D&D. THis has been true in the past few years, and also way back in the 1980s.
 

overgeeked

B/X Known World
Yes, well, to wit, the Tom Van Winkle link in the OP quotes an article from Tim Kask in 1981 in which he says
There’s a similar quote, I think from Gygax, about selling people a toolkit for the imagination in the early days then later selling pre-imagined things (modules, settings, etc).
 

MGibster

Legend
The terms are somewhat synonymous in the OP. With collecting, I was specifically thinking of the discussions that were had around Chaosium's NFT gambit, and how the culture of collecting in the hobby (and others) and the fear of missing out perhaps encouraged Chaosium initially (i.e. until the backlash).
If there's one thing we can agree on at least, is that NFTs are garbage.

Yes, well, to wit, the Tom Van Winkle link in the OP quotes an article from Tim Kask in 1981 in which he says:
If we have become a group of consumers where will the creators come from?
Perhaps Kask's statement made more sense in the context of 1981, but it wasn't particularly prescient as there have been no shortage of creators in the past 41 years. And why does he separate creators from consumers? Not every consumer is a creator, but it's likely every creator is a consumer. I imagine the likes of John Wick, Shane Hensley, and Mike Pondsmith first bought games before creating their own. Are you afraid we're going to come to a point where we're all consumers without any creators? That seems unlikely.

Well I do say that perhaps my distaste is irrational. But, for the hobby as a whole (especially 5e and especially newer players) my concern is the implicit suggestion that buying more deluxe things will lead to better games and that when one buys a 5e product one is buying into a community or lifestyle.
I would hesitate to say that your distaste is irrational. If you don't like something you don't like it. I don't think your fears are warranted though. I've bought a few deluxe version of books over the years, including the Deadlands leatherbound edition around 1999 for $200-250, but I didn't think I was getting a better game experience.
 

Perhaps Kask's statement made more sense in the context of 1981, but it wasn't particularly prescient as there have been no shortage of creators in the past 41 years. And why does he separate creators from consumers? Not every consumer is a creator, but it's likely every creator is a consumer. I imagine the likes of John Wick, Shane Hensley, and Mike Pondsmith first bought games before creating their own. Are you afraid we're going to come to a point where we're all consumers without any creators? That seems unlikely.

Maybe that's it--that part of the promise of ttrpg's is everyone is actually a creator in the context of the game. And the more the game is about taking the purchased rules/settings/adventures as written, the more you lose some of that creative aspect.

My nephew, being a child, is really into Legos. These days, Legos are generally sold in branded sets--Minecraft, Star Wars, Harry Potter, even Friends. It's maybe a nebulous difference between buying a generic lego set vs a branded one (after all you are still buying a set), but I do wonder if the saturation of these brands limits the way people (not just children) think about and negotiate creative storytelling. There might be something similar that happens with ttrpgs, especially the most popular ones.
 

Stormonu

Legend
Laughs in Games Workshop. Maybe this skews my perspective a bit....

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pffft. If you're gonna share, show the REAL power of GW marketing.

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...And it doesn't stop with GW...

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I see two strategy of marketing. One is selling a lot of "cheap" products for the mass, and other selling for "collectors", a little number of people who are willing to expensive more for their favorite brand.

I have said several times in the past, and I am going to say it again, Hasbro bets for D&D as a multimedia franchise, and this means selling different type of products.

And this is not only the market, also the own fandom has evolutioned. There are more movies of speculative fiction (fantasy or sci-fi) thanks better FX tech, the revolution of the videoconsoles, the streaming services, reading webcomics online, even free. How we have got the geek who is not happy with the last Star War productions, but he is willing to buy a Star Wars RPG where he can rewrite the plot in the way he wanted. Or people who have played a lot in videogames, and now they want to test a new type of experencie, where the TTRPG there is more creative freedom, investigation and social interaction, they want to feel an evolution of their characters because they are sick with the last clon of Blizzard's Diablo.

I wouldn't be too surprised if WotC publishes again licenced D&D based in other franchises as Rick&Morty or Stranger Things. Why not Legend of Zelda or Final Fantasy?
 


Art Waring

halozix.com
I would like to bring to notice that wotc's other product, MtG, is much more heavily-monetized than D&D. Cost can certainly become a barrier to entry into that hobby if you want to participate in standardized events.

D&D by comparison, IMO, is more conservative in its approach. Yes B&G's and other premium products exist to serve collectors and those with an more focused interest in the hobby, but they are optional.

Entry into the hobby only requires the PHB for players, and many groups only have one copy of the books to share.

My primary concern would be as to their future attitudes towards the OGL, like their attempt to use a different license with 4e. IMO, 3rd party creators are the entities driving innovation in the hobby, and without the support of the OGL, well... looking back thats how Paizo got their start with 4e abandoning the license.
 

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