The Monk -- a Martial Controller

[Nifft]

3)How do spears benefit from Wisdom specifically? Though yeah, D&D in the past haven't excluded them before.

Seriously? Look at Paragon feats.

4)For Dabbling, he takes one key feature that make one Defender the Fighter uses to make enemies target him specifically all the time. The other, he matches the extra damage from Rangers and Warlocks perfectly. It seems to me to being too much as it literally matches a Core Defender way of making an enemy to attack him and matching the extra damage a Warlock or a Ranger, at the same time. A lesser version of both, or a possible option of choosing between the two maybe.

As you noticed, he has a lesser version of Mark. But he also has a lesser version of the Striker's extra damage.

Edit: Oh I see, the restriction of just against one monster was meant to do weaken the Mark from the Fighter's version. And doesn't have the rider of OAs depending the the Marked's actions. Just a Fighter doesn't have too many multi-hit powers I thought? Calling it Mark threw me off, and thinking it was the very same thing as a Fighter's Mark.

"Mark" is a general term. Paladins and Fighters can both Mark, plus their Marks do special class-specific stuff. Some monsters use the generic Mark, and this Monk uses this generic version too.

5)True, I can see your reasoning behind that. Leaving your original class feature for Unarmed combat would be best, and look into adding in possible hand worn weapons instead for enhancement bonus and possible damage increase. Possibly things like Steel Knuckles, Fighting Gloves, and ect.

Sure, or one could play a low-magic game where all the expected enhancement bonuses are added directly into character's attacks & defenses. In that case, this Monk would need no special handling -- he'd be just like any other Martial class, but a bit better at unarmed combat.

7)Right, missed that one. It should Fury of Blows target all creatures in the Burst, not just enemies. It was done to prevent it from beating a Rangers Twin Strike, the pure striker class. More attacks, sure, but less against one enemy and maybe even hit allies.

Well, Twin Strike is awesome because you can make two attacks against the same creature -- two chances to trigger bonus damage, two chances to crit, two chances to hit a high AC. My version of Flurry doesn't allow that, because IMHO Controllers are more about dealing low damage to groups and status to single targets.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Nifft]

Update: Change in the defensive Stance. Now it's protection against one attack per round. So he's extra vulnerable to being swarmed, and that's cool, because it gives the BBEG a nice way expend his minions, and it forces an interesting decision on the Monk faced by a bruiser and several Minions: try to clear the minions and barely scratch the bruiser, or try to status-screw the bruiser and leave the minions?

Cheers, -- N

 

[Tony Vargas]

"Unarmed" would screw stuff up. Either the Monk would start to progressively suck more at level 5 (where magic weapons are expected), or he'd need to get free bonus goodies equal to a magic weapon (in which case he'd have a bunch of extra money).

Or, you could just give them an implement - 'ki straps' taking the arm slot or some such hooey.

 

[Nifft]

Or, you could just give them an implement - 'ki straps' taking the arm slot or some such hooey.

Yeah... but that is kinda cheese. I'd rather make the choice of weapon less obvious, if you know what I mean. IMHO spears, quarterstaves and light blades are all a bit underutilized, and they're right in the core rules, so I'd like to work with them first.

Basically, there are already nice feats for spears, staves and light blades, and they aren't Monk-specific. If I were to make unarmed attack feats, I'd probably make them Mon-specific, and that would be lame. :\

Is it really a big deal that armed Monks are more dangerous than unarmed Monks?

Cheers, -- N

 

[jeff0]

I'd rather make the choice of weapon less obvious, if you know what I mean. IMHO spears, quarterstaves and light blades are all a bit underutilized, and they're right in the core rules, so I'd like to work with them first.

...snip...

Is it really a big deal that armed Monks are more dangerous than unarmed Monks?

People tend to think of unarmed combat when they think of monks, so it should be a viable option. Otherwise, it's the obvious choice to use a weapon of some sort.

Perhaps you could give a +(Level/5) bonus to attack, damage, and extra critical hit damage dice. The unarmed monk would usually be a +1 behind his buddies. Not spending money on a weapon will mean you can spend twice as much on your armor or amulet, but that will only make your item two levels higher (levels, not pluses, mind you) given the exponential price curve.

 

[RyvenCedrylle]

I didn't see this posted in the thread anywhere, so I'll refer everyone to Andy Collins' "Converting Your Characters" article on the main site where he builds the Monk as a variant unarmed Ranger, and yes, the Monk's fists do d8 damage and have +3 proficiency.

That being said, the simplest way to make the Monk more of a Controller (which I would like to see myself) is to copy over Wizard powers and shrink the range. I think the OP flirted with this. Ray of Frost could become, I dunno.. Shin Kick, deals 1W to a single target and slows until save. I'd also like to see a Monk become his own Flaming Sphere (mechanically, that is).

 

[Nifft]

I didn't see this posted in the thread anywhere, so I'll refer everyone to Andy Collins' "Converting Your Characters" article on the main site where he builds the Monk as a variant unarmed Ranger, and yes, the Monk's fists do d8 damage and have +3 proficiency.

I did see that, but he fails to address the more fundamental issue: at levels above 5 or so, you're going to suck, because you need a magic weapon. Giving a +3 proficiency bonus is a band-aid: it seems like you're hitting as often as the Ranger using his +2 proficiency magic axes, but you'll fall farther and farther behind.

That being said, the simplest way to make the Monk more of a Controller (which I would like to see myself) is to copy over Wizard powers and shrink the range. I think the OP flirted with this. Ray of Frost could become, I dunno.. Shin Kick, deals 1W to a single target and slows until save. I'd also like to see a Monk become his own Flaming Sphere (mechanically, that is).

Yep, since the Wizard has the most Controller powers, I'm certainly stealing from him. However, some Wizard powers only make sense at range -- Slow, for example, becomes a Defender effect when applied to a melee target.

This Monk is going to focus on knockdowns & pushes, sometimes combined with immobilization, dazing or stunning more than slow, sleep, teleportation and entombment.

The other cool thing is that the Wizard isn't the only one with Controller-esque powers. The Ranger has a surprising number of movement-denial powers, and many of them work at range, so I'm able to steal from a variety of power-lists.

More later, -- N

 

[jmucchiello]

I did see that, but he fails to address the more fundamental issue: at levels above 5 or so, you're going to suck, because you need a magic weapon. Giving a +3 proficiency bonus is a band-aid: it seems like you're hitting as often as the Ranger using his +2 proficiency magic axes, but you'll fall farther and farther behind.

What rule says the proficiency bonus with unarmed strike cannot scale with level?

Unarmed Strike: Monks cause 1d6 damage with unarmed strikes and is considered a weapon for any power with a [W] damage effect. They have a +2 proficiency bonus with unarmed strikes. This bonus increases to +3, +4, +5, +6, and +7 at 6th, 11th, 16th, 21st and 26th levels respectively.

Or make the levels more "fair" and bump the value: +4, +5, +6, +7 and +8 at 6th, 12th, 18th, 24th and 30th levels respectively.

 

[Nifft]

What rule says the proficiency bonus with unarmed strike cannot scale with level?

If you're talking about the discussion you quoted, we're talking about someone else's rule, and it doesn't scale with level because it doesn't say it scales with level.

If you're just saying hypothetically that it could scale with level, see the discussion about not giving away magic items.

Cheers, -- N

 

[ff6shadow]

I recently worked on a class that used natural weapons. I used an implement to enhance them.

Now I noticied that you didn't want to force them to double up. Simply provide it an option so that unarmed strike is an option. It still does 1d4 damage, so other weapons be used more often, especially since other weapons can have a +3 proficiency bonus. Just by adding a implement to enhance unarmed strikes does not makre unarmed strikes the automatic selection. Other weapons have weapon specific feats and one of the following: better proficiency, better damage, or special properties.