The Monk's Hit Dice Should Be a d8! [Rant]

[MerricB]

Let's grab that description of the Monk's ability again, shall we?

Stunning Attack: The monk can use this ability once per round, but no more than once per level per day. The monk must declare she is using a stun attack before making the attack roll (thus, a missed attack roll ruins the attempt). A foe struck by the monk is forced to make a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + one-half the monk's level + Wisdom modifier). In addition to receiving normal damage, If the saving throw fails, the opponent is stunned for 1 round. The stunning attack is a supernatural ability.

The important wording is this: "the monk must declare she is using a stun attack before making the attack roll".

It's a little clearer in the feat: "Declare that the character is using the feat before making an attack roll".

Surely this implies that you can use the stunning ability before any attack roll (even an AoO?), in a manner similar to a grapple or trip?

Cheers!

 

[MerricB]

Incidentally...

Ki Strike: At 10th level, a monk's unarmed attack is empowered with ki. The unarmed strike damage from such an attack can deal damage to a creature with damage reduction as if the blow were made with a weapon with a +1 enhancement bonus. Ki strike is a supernatural ability.

Does this mean that the monk must use Ki Strike as a standard action as well?

Cheers!

 

[Liquide]

Incidentally...

Ki Strike: At 10th level, a monk's unarmed attack is empowered with ki. The unarmed strike damage from such an attack can deal damage to a creature with damage reduction as if the blow were made with a weapon with a +1 enhancement bonus. Ki strike is a supernatural ability.

Does this mean that the monk must use Ki Strike as a standard action as well?

Cheers!

FAQ nor Errata covers this so the answer is quite simple:
Until we have a diffrent official ruling the Stunning Attack and Ki Strike follows the rules for Supernatural Abilities since there is nothing in their description that says otherwise, and in this case it means that both Stuninng Attack and Ki Strike takes a Standard Action to perform.

Side-note: It doesn't say anywhere in its description that it empowers all and any of the Monks attacks, so by the rules it would require a standard action to use Ki Strike. (until we get an official ruling)

 

[MerricB]

Another consequence of this is that because Ki Strike is a standard action, the poor monk can only make ONE ATTACK PER ROUND with it.

Also, Ki Strike and Stunning Attack may not be combined.

Do you begin to see where I'm going?

Cheers!

 

[Liquide]

Another consequence of this is that because Ki Strike is a standard action (per the absolute idiot's ruling), the poor monk can only make ONE ATTACK PER ROUND with it.

Also, Ki Strike and Stunning Attack may not be combined.

Do you begin to see where I'm going?

Cheers!

1. Nope I'm not an idiot and I usually do not like to be called one either, so an apology would be in order.

2. Stunning Attack can still affect someone even if it cannot deal damage just a note for you.

3. No, I do not see where we are going since I only proclaim what the rules say, and until we get another ruling the rules is what we play the game after. Still the game is meant to be fun so you can always rule 0 what you feel is off the scale but think of why you rule 0 it. If a rule doesn't fit your group you usually change it, but then you don't play by the rules, you play by a tweaked ruleset and I just state what the rules with no tweaking say and for that I would appriciate NOT to be called an absolute idiot.

 

[MerricB]

My apologies; I was just going to edit that out.

I understand why you suggested that ruling.

Cheers!

 

[MerricB]

2. Stunning Attack can still affect someone even if it cannot deal damage just a note for you.

Um... I really must have missed that.

I'm almost 100% sure you have to damage the opponent for the stunning attack to work.

Damage Reduction Whenever damage reduction completely negates the damage from an attack, it also negates most special effects that accompany the attack. Damage reduction does not negate touch attacks, energy damage dealt along with an attack, or energy drains. Nor does it affect poisons or diseases delivered by inhalation, ingestion, or contact. Attacks that deal no damage because of the target’s damage reduction do not disrupt spells.

Cheers!

 

[Liquide]

My apologies; I was just going to edit that out.

I understand why you suggested that ruling.

Cheers!

Apology accepted, still I don't suggest rulings right now I quote them as they appear in the manual to 3e (e.g. PHB + MM +DMG + Errata + FAQ)

Still the Movement Speed of a 9th level Monk is Supernatural Ability but is not considered a Standard Action to perform (discussed in the FAQ), but no rulings on Stunning Attacks and Ki Strike so therefore I just go by the rules that say:

From the SRD
SPECIAL ABILITIES
Special abilities are extraordinary, spell-like, or supernatural.

Extraordinary Abilities (Ex): Extraordinary abilities are nonmagical. Effects or areas that negate or disrupt magic have no effect on extraordinary abilities. Extraordinary abilities have a default action type of Free Action.

Spell-Like Abilities (Sp): Spell-like abilities, as the name implies, are spells and magical abilities that are very much like spells. Spell-like abilities are subject to spell resistance and dispel magic. They do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated (such as an antimagic field). Spell-like abilities have a default action type of Standard Action. Spell-like abilities must have defined caster levels, and require Concentration checks as if they were spells.

Supernatural Abilities (Su): Supernatural abilities are magical but not spell-like. Supernatural abilities are not subject to spell resistance and do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated (such as an antimagic field). A supernatural ability’s effect can be dispelled if the duration is longer than instantaneous, but a supernatural ability is not subject to counterspells. Supernatural abilities have a default action type of Standard Action.

Abilities use their default action types unless they indicate otherwise.

And neither Stunning Attack nor Ki Strike says that it is an exception to this rule, and therefore use their default action type.

 

[MerricB]

I think the implication is very clear from the "announce before you make the attack roll" wording - it is an additional ability that is added to an attack.

Consider also:
Diamond Body: At 11th level, a monk gains immunity to poison of all kinds. Diamond body is a supernatural ability.

So this also must be activated?

Cheers!

 

[Liquide]

from the SRD
DAMAGE REDUCTION
Some magic creatures have the supernatural ability to instantly heal damage from weapons or to ignore blows altogether as though they were invulnerable.

The number in a creature’s damage reduction is the amount of hit points the creature ignores from normal attacks.
Usually, a certain type of weapon-usually a magic weapon-can overcome this reduction. This information is separated from the damage reduction number by a slash. If a dash follows the slash then the damage reduction is effective against any attack that does not ignore damage reduction.

Any weapon more powerful than the type given after the slash also negates the ability. For purposes of damage reduction, the power rankings are listed on Table: Damage Reduction Rankings (not included).

Whenever damage reduction completely negates the damage from an attack, it also negates most special effects that accompany the attack. Damage reduction does not negate touch attacks, energy damage dealt along with an attack, or energy drains. Nor does it affect poisons or diseases delivered by inhalation, ingestion, or contact. Attacks that deal no damage because of the target’s damage reduction do not disrupt spells.

Magical attacks and energy attacks (even mundane fire) ignore damage reduction.

For purposes of harming other creatures with damage reduction, a creature’s natural weapons count as weapons of the type that can ignore its own innate damage reduction. The amount of damage reduction is irrelevant.

note this line: Magical attacks and energy attacks (even mundane fire) ignore damage reduction.

Then read this:

from the SRD
Supernatural Abilities (Su): Supernatural abilities are magical but not spell-like. Supernatural abilities are not subject to spell resistance and do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated (such as an antimagic field). A supernatural ability’s effect can be dispelled if the duration is longer than instantaneous, but a supernatural ability is not subject to counterspells. Supernatural abilities have a default action type of Standard Action.

Now compare these two lines:
Magical attacks and energy attacks (even mundane fire) ignore damage reduction.
Supernatural abilities are magical but not spell-like.

There you go lad