The Monk's Hit Dice Should Be a d8! [Rant]

[TiQuinn]

My question to you (which you still haven't answered, by the way), was why wondrous items would impede the monk's abilities. I never said bladed gauntlets or the weapon-version of gauntlets should be useable by monks--but Gauntlets of Ogre Power should.

Gauntlets are weapons and they appear under the weapons category of PH. Typically, they also are piece of armor though in the game there's no AC modifier. The description of the Gauntlets of Ogre Power is they are made of hard leather with metal studs running along the back of the hand. That's why monks can't use them.

Gloves are simply a piece of clothing and are not a weapon nor armor. Monks can use these freely.

 

[Henry]

Causing damage, without a doubt. What does it matter how long you can stay alive if you can't affect your foes? More importantly, what does it matter how long you can stay alive, if your enemies can kill your friends?

Two words: paralysis magic.

Ask a fighter to make a will save: helpless fighter.

Ask a monk to make a will save: living, and still threatening, monk.

It's the same reason why I always say a wizard's first spell prepped at third level is NOT fireball -- it's dispel magic.

The ugliest combat machine in the world will still fall to one simple will-affecting spell. That's why defense is jsut as viable strategy as offense. A monk most certainly does have teeth - he is not a helpless comabtant. But combine his abilities with the fact he is able to stay on the field of battle longer, and you have quite the viable fighter. Three campaigns of having two or more monks in a party have taught me this.

 

[Hakkenshi]

If that is in fact the case, then Gauntlets of Ogre Power need to be changed to gloves so as to not interfere with a monk's ability. That's ridiculous.

Storm Raven, common sense should take over where the rules are concerned. If the monk's ability, by the rules, is worse than a feat which is a poor man's imitation of that ability, then it needs to be fixed.

I bow to your knowledge of the rules, but knowing the rules doesn't mean you use them well. I find your interpretation extremely rigid, and I don't see the need to cripple the monk by using your version of Stunning Blow. Your opinions are based on the same text I've read, I just choose to interpret it differently. And however right you feel you are, this is MY choice, not yours.

I saw the gauntlet weapon and the gauntlet wondrous item as two different things, which, in retrospect, is probably wrong. Fine.

I've read the books as well, by the way. Apparently not agreeing with you is a sign of immaturity, despite the fact that the ad hominem comments all came from you. TiQuinn responded courteously at least, for which I thank him.

 

[TroyXavier]

Well you could always go with a belt of giant strength.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Hey, when monks were first introduced to D&D (in Blackmoor) they only had d4 HD! 1d4 at 1st level for a fighting type doesn't lend survivability!

You kids don't know you're born <big smiley!>


</joke>

 

[hong]

Of course, the monk's text does state that it is a supernatural ability, and doesn't state that it is used differently from normal supernatural abilities.

So your logic train derails right there. Your argument makes no sense.
[/b]

Actually, the PHB p.39 states "a monk has the ability to stun a creature damaged by her unarmed attacks". This is a pretty clear statement that the stunning attack is delivered by means of an attack or full attack action, as opposed to needing a separate action to activate.

Think of smite. Smiting is also a supernatural ability, which is delivered via an attack.

As for gauntlets of ogre power, they're just an item granting a +2 enhancement bonus to Str taking up a particular item slot. There's nothing wrong with having an identical item taking up a different slot: +2 amulet of Str, or +2 vest of Str, for instance. You could even have +2 boots of Str, although the connection between footwear and strength is a bit harder to make.

 

[Liquide]

Not to be extremely rude or anything lads, but Storm Raven is correct on this one.

Stunning Attack is a Supernatural Ability and therefore takes 1 Standard Action to utilize.

Orignially posted by hong
Actually, the PHB p.39 states "a monk has the ability to stun a creature damaged by her unarmed attacks". This is a pretty clear statement that the stunning attack is delivered by means of an attack or full attack action, as opposed to needing a separate action to activate.

This above statement never tells us that this particular Supernatural Ability is used in any other way then any other Supernatural Ability it just tells us HOW we areallowed to use it, in this case it is used through an unarmed attack.

It can never be used more then once per round (as with any other supernatural ability), the only exception to the rules about supernatural abilites we can find is that is has to be used with an unarmed attack.

And until this has been clarified or errata:ed the rules say in essence this:

You can make a Stunning Attack in junction with an Unarmed Attack, but it takes one Standard action to perform this attack. So Stunning Attack cannot be used in junction with a Full Attack nor with a Flurry of blows. And this is due to the fact that Stunning Attack is a Supernatural Ability, and a Supernatural Ability always takes one Standard Action to use unless noted otherwise (in this case there are no such notes on otherwise).

 

[I'm A Banana]

This problem was also braught up with the Monk's speed.

The monk's speed is supernatural, and yet doesn't take a standard action to use. You don't activate monk speed and then use it -- it is continuously in use (but dispelable).

If I remember correctly, the Sage said basically that a supernatural ability that affects an action works when taking that action. A monk's speed is that fast whenever they move. A monk's stunning is possible during any attack that damages a foe.

Also, if you do maintain that it takes a standard action to use Stunning Fist, it causes some problems with that statement... the monk can stun enemies damaged by their unarmed attack....does that mean that the monk has to first hit them with a punch and *then* (and only then) can they opt to stun? And how long is that? When they heal that, are they no longer "damaged," and so cannot be stunned, or does the fact of damaging last indefinately, so that if the monk meets them years later they can stun them?

Had to pop in on that.

 

[Balgus]

yeah- i played a monk at mid levels (8-10) and he was the most fun i ever had. Not only did his feats reflect his training, but I did not care for numbers when it came down to raw damage.

The saves were fun too. Telling casters "HAH! ya missed again" and then not being able to hit the caster is just funny....

movement and class abilities made it really fun to play.

 

[Sanackranib]

monk d8 HD . . .

why not just make them d12 they already get everything else. all saves are favored, unarmed counts as armes, dex + wis for ac, cant be caught flatfooted, increased mv, etc, etc etc. this is already the most broken and disruptive class why not go ahead and finish it off . . . Good Grief enough about the "monk" already!