The mysteries of the theurge...

[not_me]

Just a question on everyone's experiences (harness the collective!). Now that some time has passed since 3.5 has arrived and players/DM's have had a chance to use the much-discussed Mystic Theurge, what is the latest concensus on them? How do they perform in a group, how to they stack up power-wise (this was the biggest debate pre-release), durable, etc?

Thanks,

not_me

 

[mikebr99]

They make excellent cohorts.

And +10th (as a character, not a cohort) can move from a supporting role to the party lead. YMMV


Mike

 

[Sidekick]

Well one of my players has a MT in her other campaign. The party are all 1th level and her character rocks. She has something like 40ish spells/day and while she is powerful, the 10th level paladin & dwarven battlerager are not outclassed. She has ggo dbuffs, ranged attacks and is in general both a good support combatant and a good lead character as well.

My feeling from her is that the MT isn't overpowered, but yes it is powerfull.

 

[Teslacoil1138]

No, the mystic theurge is balanced by the fact that he has to have 2 high ability scores if he wants to cast high level arcane and divine magic. That leaves little room for points in Con or Dex, which are important for casters.

What's not balanced is a wizard/psion/cerebremancer. Only 1 mind stat needs to be high, so extra points can go to Con and Dex, and therefore a lot more HP, AC, etc., not to mention almost double the spellpower of a normal wizard or psion...

 

[Loghar]

I've been playing a 14th level thuerge, and my DM and I both find that it is a good support class, and not overpowering. The lack of turning can be irritating at times, but fireballs work too. Versatility is a big plus, although preparing spells for both classes(and remembering what you've got in combat) can be difficult. As far as durability, I've died twice now, finger of death(beholder) and wail of the banshee(trap). So when possible, avoid making Fort saves.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I've been playing a 14th level thuerge, and my DM and I both find that it is a good support class, and not overpowering. The lack of turning can be irritating at times, but fireballs work too. Versatility is a big plus, although preparing spells for both classes(and remembering what you've got in combat) can be difficult. As far as durability, I've died twice now, finger of death(beholder) and wail of the banshee(trap). So when possible, avoid making Fort saves.

I believe it is a special universal law that fortitude saves always fail if they`re important enough... The favourite way of my Fighter, Ranger or Druid/Shifter to die was failing their Fortitude Save against a Death/Desintegrate spell. So it hat nothing to do with being a Mystic Theurge, but having a level in Cleric (which has a good fortitude save, after all)

 

[green slime]

IMX, they are a tad weak (up to 12th character level). This prior to the Practised Spellcaster feat. Have to try again, I guess.

Lots of noise, and smoke, not so much actually happening. As always could be a campaign thing.

 

[Darklone]

MTs would have to take the Practised Spellcaster feat twice... that's expensive but helps a lot.

 

[Numion]

I remember the outrage at the brokenness of this class. Just goes to underline the need for playtesting before condemning stuff.

Sadly the MT in our group died when the character had only a single MT level, so we didn't really get to see it in action :\

 

[Thanee]

The player in my group, who had the Mystic Theurge, makes a new character now.

I think he's overreacting, but well... I guess the time before Practiced Spellcaster and 3rd level spells were available has brandmarked him too much, and I think he wants a more active role, too. So, whatever, as long as everyone has fun (this rules out psionics, of course )...

No, the Mystic Theurge is definitely not overpowered. That's really fairly easy to see, once you know how tough a loss in spell levels is for a pure caster, no playtesting required there, really, and I never understood the outrage in the first place. People just think too narrow... spells = powerful, more spells (but lower spell levels) = more powerful = wrong.

At very high levels, and with Practiced Spellcaster, I can see the class to be fairly powerful, even more powerful than a pure wizard, but the lack of proper advancement past 16th level is a big downside there. Still as soon as the character picks up 8th or 9th level arcane spells, the plethora of divine spells, up to 7th level isn't bad at all, are worth a lot more than the few more spells/day a pure wizard has (judging from the standard cleric/wizard combo, which proceeds to increase arcane casting ability after 16th level). At this point the class becomes really powerful. Until then, the Mystic Theurge will always be behind a pure cleric or wizard, but as a supporter, the huge amount of different spells is pretty cool, indeed, tho you need Practiced Spellcaster to make them useful. You just need to know where your place is and be happy with a more supportive role, I guess.

Bye
Thanee