The Myth of the Bo9S's Popularity

[Dausuul]

...if many playtesters liked Bo9S a lot, then that's a data point to consider.

Yeah, that's another thing to keep in mind. When I first heard about the Book of Nine Swords, I had no interest in buying it. It sounded like some kind of quasi-East Asian setting book, and I tend to prefer a more European flavor in my games; plus I'm a caster player from away back. I've always been bored by D&D melee classes.

However, one of the other guys in my gaming group is more into Asian-flavored stuff, plus he loves playing melee warriors, so he picked it up and convinced me to take a look at it. I tried out a swordsage and was instantly hooked. I soon bought my own copy and have been a martial adept enthusiast ever since; but if I hadn't had that guy in my group, I never would have bothered with it.

All of which is to say that the success of a supplement like the Bo9S is not determined purely by content. The way the supplement is marketed is also a major factor. If I were WotC, I'd be looking less at raw sales data and more at customer satisfaction ratings among the people who've tried the book.

 

[Dragonblade]

I can personally attest to Bo9S popularity. Almost every gamer in my group owns a copy (thats 6 copies among us!!) and we have 3 ongoing campaigns. All three campaigns feature characters made from the book.

It is widely regarded by most of us as the BEST 3rd edition product outside of the core rules that WotC has ever released.

 

[Ragnar69]

While I like the concept of the book, it is (like psionics) a tacked-on sub-system and so of no interest to me. But built into 4e right from the start, it will be awesome.

 

[Mercule]

I thought that the most important lesson was that if you have a chicken and I have no chicken we both have half a chicken...

Strange. I learned that in my Philosophy 201 class, the Utilitarian chapter.

 

[Mercule]

Yeah, that's another thing to keep in mind. When I first heard about the Book of Nine Swords, I had no interest in buying it. It sounded like some kind of quasi-East Asian setting book, and I tend to prefer a more European flavor in my games; plus I'm a caster player from away back. I've always been bored by D&D melee classes.

Generally my initial reaction, other than I prefer skill-monkeys.

I picked up Bo9S on the cheap and on a whim. Turns out that, other than two of the nine "schools" of martial study, it works really well in a Medieval-flavored game.

 

[sirwmholder]

I thought that the most important lesson was that if you have a chicken and I have no chicken we both have half a chicken...

Strange. I learned that in my Philosophy 201 class, the Utilitarian chapter.

You seem to be laboring under the conclusion that he intends to share his chicken... or you intend to take half of it.... by force if necessary... roll initiative.

Back on point, I'm in the camp that enjoys Bo9S mechanics over the flavor. The fluff wasn't bad just I like to create my own to better suit my campaigns... though I really liked the Legacy Weapons that were included to represent each of the swords... since 4e is moving away from Christmas tree effects do you think Legacy Weapons will disappear or come to the forefront?

Umm, that may be off topic...
William Holder

 

[Stormtalon]

Generally my initial reaction, other than I prefer skill-monkeys.

I picked up Bo9S on the cheap and on a whim. Turns out that, other than two of the nine "schools" of martial study, it works really well in a Medieval-flavored game.

I presume you're talking about the Desert Wind and Setting Sun styles? Those do seem to be the most "non-western" of the set, true.

I found the most fun style, at least from a pure RP perspective, was Shadow Hand, simply due to the Child of Shadow stance. I mean really, if you're going to go for a (more than) slightly creepy fellow, why not have that stance active all the time even when strolling thru town?

Can't wait to see some of the stuff we'll be getting for Fighters, Rogues & other melee sorts in 4th Ed. If I can recreate my Warblade or (to a lesser extent) my Swordsage, I'll be a happy camper.

'Course, my Warblade would require a Bariaur race to be developed, but that's a whole different thing altogether....

 

[Mercule]

I presume you're talking about the Desert Wind and Setting Sun styles? Those do seem to be the most "non-western" of the set, true.

Actually, I meant Desert Wind and Shadow Hand. Those are the two that are most likely to have supernatural effects -- both in terms of the mechanical designation and the flavor. Setting Sun didn't wow me, but it didn't bother me, either. There is nothing inherently non-Western about unarmed combat. Setting Sun works just fine for that. Diamond Mind and Iron Heart are the two I most liked. White Raven is fine, but more what I expect the warlord to do, rather than the fighter.

Edit: I just realized what one of the "anime influences" is that I don't like. I don't like styles/maneuvers with animal names. White Raven, Feral Tiger (or whatever it was), Golden Wyvern, Lightning Panther, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, that sort of stuff.

Not that that is relevant to much, but I found it an interesting epiphany in light of some of the other discussions currently going on.

 

[TerraDave]

You know, personal interest of the designers (and developers) could also be driving what they do. It has absolutely positively been the case with every past edition, and most products that have come out over the years.

But maybe not this time.

I know that on the boards, I have heard refs. to a lot more things other then Bo9S. The Warlock, PHB II classes, and Eberon classes and races seem to get mentioned a lot more. But of course, that is not good data.

 

[Will]

Well, I liked the idea of Bo9S, but I hated the implementation. That could be a response they are working from...

But as for 'oh, sales figures aren't high because Bo9S came out a while ago,' I'd point out that a lot of the books that did better also came out a while ago, and in a few cases came out earlier. I mean, Complete Warrior?

Then you get into splitting hairs. 'Oh, well, Complete Warrior is regarded as more core' etc etc.

The point remains that there doesn't seem to be a lot of non-anecdotal evidence that Bo9S is popular.

As for 'why would WotC lie,' they may not be lying; their view of popularity may be based on a number of assumptions or interpretations of reactions. These assumptions and inerpretations may be wrong.

Or mine may be... only time will tell.

Personally, my hope is that they use Bo9S as a starting point and look to make something a little ... smoother. My problem with the system is that the system seemed 'fiddly;' I'd prefer options with a lot fewer hoops of 'well, first you do this, then you activate that, then after one minute you can...'

But maybe what I want is contradictory.