The Nature of Change (or, Understanding Edition Wars)

[pawsplay]

I think you can blame SWSE (that is, the game that many people say they wish 4e was more like...) for the second wind mechanic, rather than particular moves restricted to a handful of characters in fighting games.

I don't agree that the mechanic weakens the need for a balanced party, or at least not any moreso than UMD + healing scrolls & wands does in 3e.

Actually, Unearthed Arcana introduced Reserve Points first. And here's a little secret: Reserve Points, Healing Surges and the like are all just hit points in disguise.

 

[Harlekin]

Actually, Unearthed Arcana introduced Reserve Points first. And here's a little secret: Reserve Points, Healing Surges and the like are all just hit points in disguise.

Yep. Which makes it particularly funny if the same people that don't bat an eyelash at hp claim that healing surges break immersion into the game.

 

[Spatula]

Actually, Unearthed Arcana introduced Reserve Points first. And here's a little secret: Reserve Points, Healing Surges and the like are all just hit points in disguise.

Yep.

3E got slammed for tapping into the Dungeonpunk/anime aspects

...which was another silly argument. 3e also got "slammed" for being too videogamey. If WoW was around at the time, I'm sure 3e would have gotten "slammed" for being just like Warcraft, too. It's all pretty stupid and reductionist.

 

[pawsplay]

It's all pretty stupid and reductionist.

All?

 

[pawsplay]

Yep. Which makes it particularly funny if the same people that don't bat an eyelash at hp claim that healing surges break immersion into the game.

I don't quite see the "funny" part, since there are a zillion ways to do hit points.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

So the extent of the cooperation in 3.x is that you want to protect the healer? How is that more cooperation than 4th edition?

No, but that need definitely influenced in-game tactics.

...but the second wind is an attempt to emulte action-adventure fiction (most notably in film & tv), not Mortal Kombat.

While that may have been part of the intent, I looked at Healing Surges and immediately saw warriors with little green/yellow/red bars over their heads (or near their feet, or hearts being drained of red)...

And I wasn't the only one.

Everyone in 4e has UMD. *shrug* I don't see what the distinction has to do with anything - is a fighter with UMD a spellcaster? No? Then what does being a spellcaster have to do with anything? How do you train at randomly "tricking" magic items into working? (UMD being another good example of ExploderWizard's BS game elements that don't make much sense.)

The point is that in 3.X, pretty much your only meaningful sources of healing came directly or indirectly from spellcasters. They go comatose, you have no magical medics.

As for UMD, its a classic simulation of the action-adventure trope of the crafty/weasely/smart guy poking and prodding and twisting the McGuffin until it works...sometimes not as intended.

Actually, Unearthed Arcana introduced Reserve Points first. And here's a little secret: Reserve Points, Healing Surges and the like are all just hit points in disguise.

Yep. Which makes it particularly funny if the same people that don't bat an eyelash at hp claim that healing surges break immersion into the game.

Reserve points are an optional rule (which we didn't use). Healing surges are not.

 

[Shadeydm]

I don't quite see the "funny" part, since there are a zillion ways to do hit points.

The funny part is if we are calling healing surges hit points, it means that you can die with 90% of your hit points intact.

 

[pawsplay]

The funny part is if we are calling healing surges hit points, it means that you can die with 90% of your hit points intact.

That IS the funny part. It reminds me of one of my players, who has made a sacred vow never to die with a dimension door still prepared.

 

[Harlekin]

The funny part is if we are calling healing surges hit points, it means that you can die with 90% of your hit points intact.

So a game construct that allows you to survive multiple sword blows is acceptable but a game construct that allows you to survive multiple sword blows but requires a short rest between each blow destroys realism?

I would say both constructs shove realism and verisimilitude aside to allow for a good game. And calling one less realistic than the other is the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[Lacyon]

The funny part is if we are calling healing surges hit points, it means that you can die with 90% of your hit points intact.

See also: massive damage.