D&D 5E The new Dungeons & Dragons Starter Set - and online tools?

[delericho]

Tabletop rpgs should be playable with only pencil, paper, & dice. When electronic are required, and not supplementary to playing the game (including chargen) the game has ceased to be a tabletop rpg.

I agree with this. I have absolutely no problem with electronic tools existing or them being supplementary, but they absolutely should not be required. Heck, even 4e's Character Builder was verging on being a step too far, IMO (in that you could play without it, but I certainly would never want to!).

However...

Producing an introductory set that fails to be a an actual tabletop rpg tells me that the company producing it really doesn't GET the most basic concept of tabletop rpgs, which is creating characters and having adventures.

Here I disagree. The best, and most succinct, summary of D&D I've seen comes from Jeff Rients' blog, and is "You play Conan, I play Gandalf. We team up to fight Dracula."

Which covers the "having adventures" bit, but doesn't actually require "creating characters". Certainly, the latter is a nice-to-have, and indeed not having it is a big strike against a Starter Set in my book, but if it absolutely must be sacrificed then I don't think that's a deal-breaker.

 

[delericho]

Personally, I'm not sure about it yet. This is not to state that I think he's a liar; but I do wonder how a set without chargen included within it could be better than the Pathfinder set: didn't the latter include chargen?

It does, and it's a very bold claim by Pundit given that the Pathfinder set is an excellent product. However, it's worth bearing in mind that the Pathfinder set is nearly double the price ($35 vs $20), which is a factor in which is "a better deal".

And, of course, it's a question of taste - if you like D&D 5e and don't like Pathfinder, then the D&D box is almost certain to be a better deal for you (and, of course, the opposite is true if you like PF but not 5e).

 

[Mistwell]

More from Pundit


Q: From what everyone is saying (Mearls, Pundit etc), we will be getting character creation by way of a separate free PDF or online character generator, which is exactly what we got under 3e and 4e. Trying to distinguish this release from them is simply obvious bias.

A: If that was all there was to it, I would be less impressed with the plan.

[Me - We are missing something. Something we have not considered. Something new.]

 

[DEFCON 1]

Once again... people freaking out over a lack of information they couldn't do anything with even if they had it.

We finally got our release dates for the products. Great. Lot good that's done us... we still have to wait three months for it. So glad they told us those dates, cause our lives are sooooooo different now that we have it. Thank GOD they gave that to us!

And you know... if only Mike would tell us what that step between the Starter Set and the Big 3 was now... a full two months before the Starter Set goes on sale and we can actually make use of the information... you wouldn't BELIEVE how different our lives would be!

We'd spend every day here on ENWorld making happy posts, rather than complaining! Yeah! And isn't that what WotC wants?!? A few dozen forum posters thinking happy thoughts rather than getting upset?!? Can't they see how important that is? Why would they possibly want to do anything that wouldn't result in a bunch of threads complaining about the lack of information? Don't they GET IT? We NEED this information in order to just sit on it and have it serve absolutely no purpose in our lives until two months from now.

Why Wizards PR doesn't see the wellspring of importance all of us on ENWorld serve, I have no idea. You'd almost think that we actually don't matter than much in the grand scheme of things. But that couldn't possibly be it, could it? Naw!!!

 

[delericho]

Once again... people freaking out over a lack of information they couldn't do anything with even if they had it.

Actually, in this instance it's people freaking out over information we do have - specifically that there won't be character generation rules in the Starter Set. Whether that's any more reasonable or not I'll leave as an exercise for the reader.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Here I disagree. The best, and most succinct, summary of D&D I've seen comes from Jeff Rients' blog, and is "You play Conan, I play Gandalf. We team up to fight Dracula."

Which covers the "having adventures" bit, but doesn't actually require "creating characters". Certainly, the latter is a nice-to-have, and indeed not having it is a big strike against a Starter Set in my book, but if it absolutely must be sacrificed then I don't think that's a deal-breaker.

Yes you can have adventures with existing characters, but one of the biggest selling points of D&D was ' products of YOUR imagination'. This includes support for creating your own characters and bringing them to life in adventures likewise of your own creation.

A beginning set needs to allow for that in some capacity. Characters and adventures of someone else's imagination are fine to include as examples, but if the tools to create your own are left out, you have a set with no real replay value. A set without replay value doesn't qualify as a game, its merely an advertisement.

 

[delericho]

[Me - We are missing something. Something we have not considered. Something new.]

That is indeed my read on what he's saying. However, I'm inherently skeptical of posts that amount to "I know something you don't know".

 

[delericho]

Yes you can have adventures with existing characters, but one of the biggest selling points of D&D was ' products of YOUR imagination'. This includes support for creating your own characters and bringing them to life in adventures likewise of your own creation.

I think that's our fundamental point of disagreement. To me "products of YOUR imagination" can include support for creating your own characters. But I don't agree that it must - if for no other reason that I've run game sessions for newbies where they've been supplied with pregens and those absolutely have been RPG sessions. Because the character is still just one piece of the whole - two different players could portray Batman quite differently, just as the many different actors have each presented a different take on the role.

So, again, I consider character creation very much a nice-to-have in a Starter Set, but if it absolutely must be sacrificed then I don't consider that an absolute deal-breaker. YMMV, obviously.

 

[Mistwell]

That is indeed my read on what he's saying. However, I'm inherently skeptical of posts that amount to "I know something you don't know".

And I think that is fair, particularly with Pundit. I'm just reporting

 

[DEFCON 1]

...but if the tools to create your own are left out, you have a set with no real replay value. A set without replay value doesn't qualify as a game, its merely an advertisement.

You do have 4 or 5 pre-gen characters to select from... which means you really have 4 or 5 times the amount of replay value. How many times do you have to level a different character from 1-5 before it turns from 'advertisement' into 'game'?