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D&D 5E The new exploration rules, discussion

Hussar

Legend
Just a question about the variable "turn" length. Isn't this pretty much standard in most versions of D&D? Granted, an AD&D turn had a specific duration (10 minutes) but, the idea that you had variable lengths of checking for wandering monsters isn't new. Pretty much any location had localized rules for wandering monsters. The only thing that's really being added here is on the player side where you have a specified duration to work from.
 

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Nemesis Destiny

Adventurer
This addition was kind of a highlight of this packet for me.

First impression was that it was basically a standardized exploration Skill Challenge with a different name.

After mulling it over and discussing it, I still think that's true, but not necessarily a bad thing. Some of the numbers seem wonky to me, but I think it's a pretty good first attempt. I particularly like how it encourages teamwork in exploring rather than one character doing everything (or even being able to).

Fortunately, this framework will be easy to port into my current game, even if I end up never playing or running Next.
 

Li Shenron

Legend
Two things that I'm missing are encumbrance, weather conditions and food and water considerations, I also think that dungeon exploration and wilderness exploration should be in two separate subsections of exploration.

Those would be definitely great additions!

If you determine that an area is dense with monsters, and give it a certain chance for wandering monsters, then you check against the same number regardless of how long the turns are (unless you come up with a different number for the different scales - 5% per hour equates to 40% per day or whatever). The only way this makes sense is to use 1-hour turns only for really really dangerous places, and never skip over those places with 1-day turns. When you enter the Forest of Monsters, you're in 1-hour turns until you leave. That makes sense. +/- 0 for the rules.

To add one more thought... As [MENTION=6688285]Blackwarder[/MENTION] mentions, dungeon & wilderness exploration are somewhat different things.

So rather than focusing on how dangerous a place is before choosing how long turns should be, what I would personally do is focus on what is the purpose of the scenario, i.e. what the player characters are going there. And this IMHO is strongly correlated to the size of the area involved.

5-minutes turns would be good for me, when the PCs are exploring an enclosed space, such as caves or city sewers, where you tend to reason in meters but you don't usually want to measure time in rounds because it would result in way too many checks for traps for example. I would very much use this approach all the time while in dungeon corridors, until either an encounter occurs or the PCs enter a potentially interesting room.

1-hour turns would be useful when the PCs are in a larger area looking for something or some more specific location (and when they find it, the scope shrinks to smaller distances and time), the forest being the perfect example.

1-day turns in my opinion serve well a very different case: travel. They are perfect for a LotR-style quest where there can be days without anything relevant. These rules can be good for letting the DM fast-forward without completely skipping those days.

All these are cases that gave me problems in 3e... I know the exploration rules are an optional module, but I really really really hope they will end up in the core books nevertheless. :angel:
 

1-day turns in my opinion serve well a very different case: travel. They are perfect for a LotR-style quest where there can be days without anything relevant. These rules can be good for letting the DM fast-forward without completely skipping those days.


It seems like slightly clunkier version of the system in The One Ring to me. I'm absolutely certain it can be improved, making it clearer and simpler to resolve. But it's a very nice first try.
 

SatanasOz

Explorer
  • "The five cultists fail the check, so she is hidden from all of them at the start of the fight." Wait, what? It says "the check," which implies they collectively rolled once. Does group perception even exist in this ruleset? +? for the rule
...

  • Making checks for large numbers of creatures at once still needs to be addressed

it is adressed, at least indirectly. page 12 in How to play states: ini for lage groups can be done as one check at the GMs disgression. I see no reason why this should not allso apply for other checks.

good enough for a playtest, the final rules should have a general paragraph on adjudicating checks for larger groups in the same spirit and I am happy.
 


Iosue

Legend
So rather than focusing on how dangerous a place is before choosing how long turns should be, what I would personally do is focus on what is the purpose of the scenario, i.e. what the player characters are going there. And this IMHO is strongly correlated to the size of the area involved.
To add to what you wrote, my impression was

5-minute turns - Exploring the Caves of Chaos.
1-hour turns - The journey from the Keep to the Caves.
1-day turns - The journey from the PCs home town to the Keep (or from the Keep to the next base of adventure).

All these are cases that gave me problems in 3e... I know the exploration rules are an optional module, but I really really really hope they will end up in the core books nevertheless.

I'm almost positive they will be included in the "Standard" rules. I suspect a somewhat simplified version, perhaps only focusing on the dungeon exploration, will be included in the "Basic" rules.
 

RedFox

First Post
My initial thoughts on the system

I think they're a great first pass, though a little too complicated and a little sketchy in certain areas. I'm coming from the basis of familiarity with the rules in B/X D&D, though.

The "pace" thing seems overly complex and unnecessary, and yet also too abstract. It needs to be tied into movement speed in some way. In B/X, you basically moved at the rate of the slowest member of the party, and you had two 'paces'; regular exploration speed and running for your life.

Weather definitely needs to have an effect on getting lost. Even if it's just "harsh weather grants disadvantage to exploration actions." Possibly with a caveat about it aiding stealth checks.

There should probably be a foraging option, so desperate / ill equipped parties can find food and water.

I agree that the module would benefit from separation into "dungeon" and "wilderness" exploration sub-sections. I'm not convinced that this is a one-size-fits-all system.

Likewise, I also agree that a 6 mile hex is a better wilderness base, if nothing else so that it's more compatible with virtually every old hex map for D&D. Also 60 degree instead of 45 degree variations.

Exploration range on the 5 minute scale is way too fast. A party can traverse and "elf the room" with search checks up to 90 squares of distance at a moderate pace. 40 squares with cautious. That's ridiculous, IMO. Parties in Moldvay Basic D&D were lucky to get 18 squares on a given 10 minute turn, being assumed to move at the "cautious" pace, carefully checking for traps and whatnots as an entire party. And that's only if nobody was wearing heavy armor (realistically most parties would traverse 12 squares / 10 minute turn). That keeps the pacing to a more reasonable limit, IMO, as with 18 squares you're much less likely to buzz through two or three average dungeon rooms in one turn of exploration.

I'd also love to see a sentence or two about discrete searches. Searching a cabinet that looks suspicious resulting in automatically finding the hidden door behind the false back rather than requiring a roll. That sort of thing.

The wandering monster table is... vague to the point of meaningless. The population density terms mean nothing, and are obviously meant to be universally applicable. I'd prefer to see something more concrete. I don't need actual demographics numbers but something better than what we have here. I also think the distribution on a d20 roll is somewhat unintuitive.

Even though I don't really want more complexity, I do think it's important to at least explain in the rules how a DM could modify the travel pace in the wilderness by the difficulty of various terrain types. One should probably not always assume that moving over volcanic mountains is going to be exactly as time consuming as moving through midland plains or cultivated farmland.

I'd also like to see monster reaction and morale rules. A simple d6 table for the former and a simple score and table for the latter would be fine, ala Moldvay.

Also I'd like to see more parts of the game have notational tie-ins to the new system. Everything from feat/class feature support to equipment. Bedrolls should note whether they provide an advantage or are required to avoid a penalty, for example. And it'd be nice to refresh the DM in this Exploration section on the duration of the standard light sources just to remind her that they now have concrete effects; torches last 1 hour (twelve 5 minute turns), lanterns last 6 (72).

All-in-all, though this is a very nice first stab and probably quite playable with a little jiggery pokery.

P.S. two more thoughts after posting:

I'd also like to see escape, evasion, and pursuit rules. Keep them simple, but I miss having the option to drop treasure or food to distract pursuing humanoids or animals/monsters. :)

Mandatory rest breaks. In Moldvay, the party had to stop and rest every hour for a turn or they'd start accruing penalties from fatigue. This nicely dovetailed with the need to light new torches. It puts pressure on the party to occasionally stop and reassess. Not super important, but something to consider.

BTW, the wilderness exploration rules in the Cook/Marsh Expert pamphlet took up slightly less than two pages, even including rules for air and water travel as well as variant terrain types (X19-X20). :)

P.P.S. Another small note that would be worth having in the rules is the intersection between "encounter speed" and the exploration system. In Moldvay, it was quite simple: a fight was assumed to take up a full 10 minute turn, regardless of its actual length. This was for neatness sake, handwaving the extra time as taken up resting from battle, dressing wounds, looting bodies, etc. The time taken on the wilderness scale was negligible. An similarly elegant interface between the sub-systems in Next would be appreciated.
 
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SkidAce

Legend
Supporter
ermm....no, it doesn't...okay, well it doesn't in reverse...so to speak. With a hex map, you'd want 60 degree increments. You have 6 hexes around the one you occupy, 45 degree increments makes for 8 directions....

If you start your "0" direction straight into the next hex, your "2" direction will point directly in between two hexes.
View attachment 56821

...just saying.

good clarification, I was with y'all from the first...
 

SkidAce

Legend
Supporter
This addition was kind of a highlight of this packet for me.

First impression was that it was basically a standardized exploration Skill Challenge with a different name.

After mulling it over and discussing it, I still think that's true, but not necessarily a bad thing. Some of the numbers seem wonky to me, but I think it's a pretty good first attempt. I particularly like how it encourages teamwork in exploring rather than one character doing everything (or even being able to).

Fortunately, this framework will be easy to port into my current game, even if I end up never playing or running Next.

This is true.
 

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