The new, shiny "Stuff I Have/Would Ban" thread!

[eamon]

I would think dwarven armour is better - its a free action and a free surge. Sure its just once a day, but how many times a day does a given player need to use the cloak of the walking wounded?

Particularly the "free action" aspect is really critical: for most characters it's attractive to delay healing until the last moment: and the dwarven armor lets you take that risk and saves you when it goes wrong. Conversely, the cloak for non-dwarves is pretty uninspiring: most characters will (rightly) choose to avoid a second wind as long as they possibly can, and if you wait too long, you may end up dropping without ever getting a chance to use the cloak.

There's another factor here, which favors the armor; that's that players usually win safely anyhow. Mostly, deaths are attributable at least partially to bit of solidly bad luck. Abilities which allow you to mitigate a few bad rolls mean you're much less vulnerable to that kind of thing. The players' need for a buff isn't constant. A weaker but more flexible buff can easily turn out superior to a stronger but less flexible buff. In that sense, things like the elven reroll, couters of second chances, and luckblades all work quite well - It's often not a problem to miss and just attack next turn; but sometimes the tactics are such that hitting now is very important. Similarly with healing, the ability to heal when you need it is quite powerful.

Oh, and let's not forget the level difference too; the armor is in the attractive 2/7/12 etc block, whereas the cloak is in the expensive 4/9/14 etc. block; so by choosing such a highlevel item, you're paying with your defenses 3/5 levels rather than just 1/5 levels.

Cloak of the Walking Wounded doesn't need banning.

 

[KarinsDad]

this is the argument that i don't understand. Why do you think that as the dm you get to decide what is fun for the players. Some people enjoy a constant bonus to damage way more then a daily power magic item. Why is it that because you think it's boring that overrides what your players might think about it, especially when you agree it's not overpowered?

qft

 

[Obryn]

This is the argument that I don't understand. Why do you think that as the DM you get to decide what is fun for the players. Some people enjoy a constant bonus to damage way more then a daily power magic item. Why is it that because you think it's boring that overrides what your players might think about it, especially when you agree it's not overpowered?

Who said I'm deciding it's not fun for the players? I decided it's not fun for me.

-O

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

I would have thought that is exactly the DMs job - ideally they should craft an experience that is the most enjoyable for all involved (so, for himself and each of the players).

So yes, it is the DM's call to decide what is the most fun for his players as a group. Hopefully he decides what is best for his group - if a player is unhappy with his call, the player can bring it up with the DM, but ultimately is is the DM's call.

Of course, if the DM isn't deciding on what his players actually find fun, he may find himself without players.

I think its important to emphasize that the DM should be deciding on behalf of the party as a whole - so, if one player doesn't like the DM's decision but most of the players do, the DM is likely correct on ruling the way he has (I say "likely" because it will also depend on personal dynamics and strength of feelings).

So, it is totally the DM's job to decide what is fun for his player.


Myself, my own call is not to give out the armbands as treasure, but allow players to buy them for their characters. That said, this works for me in that my players really aren't optimizers and therefore likely won't - but if they feel so strongly about it that they do buy them, I'm not going to stand in the way of that.

 

[Flipguarder]

I find the fighter class boring, that doesn't mean i ban it for my players.

 

[keterys]

My primary experience with armbands is as a player. They're boring. I'd much rather have the freedom to have a Throwing Shield on my fighter or frost charger or bloodsoaked bracers on my dragonborn warlord.

But, I mean, that'd be really dumb, when I can just get armbands instead. I'm not going to commit a disservice to the rest of my gaming group and my own e-peen by taking a totally suboptimal option In LFR especially, people would just be confused if you didn't have the bonus. It's almost like a fighter using a sling as his primary weapon or a rogue using a greataxe. Insane and fishy, indeed.

I'm still confused as to how 'Give the bonus out for free and get rid of the item' is somehow less fun than 'Keep the item'. Then again, trying to make sense of things on the internet is inherently fraught with peril, so maybe I should stop

 

[keterys]

I find the fighter class boring, that doesn't mean i ban it for my players.

And, yet, pre-errata many DMs _did_ ban the battlerager. Were those DMs mean ratfinks for denying their players their fun?

Were they suddenly good DMs when the errata came in?

Much like professional sports chooses to avoid performance enhancing drugs and equipment made of superior materials if they deem that such things will be harmful for the game _even though the players would use them in a heartbeat if it meant they played better_, so too will players gravitate towards the strongest and most efficient options.

Players will optimize themselves into easier and more boring games. And it's the DMs job to either keep things interesting despite that, or take small measures to cover for the game otherwise.

When the game is broken by something - for example, epic builds that can take infinite action point attacks in the first round of combat and kill anything - that job is _easy_. When it's just 'Eh, the game is 2% more boring because of this' it's a lot more debatable. And that's why some people will do it. Some people won't bother. And a lot of people won't really care.

 

[Obryn]

I find the fighter class boring, that doesn't mean i ban it for my players.

...and when I ban entire classes or races, rather than a short list of items and 1 daily power, I'll discuss this point with you.

-O

 

[Flipguarder]

That's really here nor there honestly. The point is, just because you don't find something fun, doesn't mean it's a good idea to not allow your players to have it. There's no logic in that.

 

[Garthanos]

And, yet, pre-errata many DMs _did_ ban the battlerager. Were those DMs mean ratfinks for denying their players their fun?

Were they suddenly good DMs when the errata came in?

I am more inclined to change something instead of banning it.. usually I see a cool idea I can keep while adjusting it so it works better for me.... while still giving a player interested in it ... about what they ask for.

Giving something to everyone since everyone wants it or ought to... is cool ... In most cases I would prefer to do it with flavor (bloodclaw example I have mentioned) ... but as per expertise feat taxes I am willing to do it blandly so that it fades away and leaves other options flavorful.

In the case of the Iron Armbands of Power I would really think maybe upping the grade of armslot /shield so that it is a primary seems the order of the day... even if it is a lot of work. ... should we start a house rules thread for it? with people posting improvements to make arm slot items more primary.