D&D (2024) The new Warlock is so much better Thematically

[Azzy]

It's not the domain aspect that I find amusing. It's that the warlock chooses the patron ("god") at 3rd, but the cleric is choosing their god at 1st. It's just inconsistent. Imagine the cleric being a generic priest, but not choosing which god they worship until 3rd ("Surprise guys, I'm actually an adept of Asmodeus!")

I'm only saying that I can buy the cleric domains coming on at 3rd level. I'm also not a fan of the warlock's pact coming on at 3rd level.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Yeah, making every class expressly not start to adhere to the player's concept until level 3 is a major sticking point for me. Just one more reason levels 1 and 2 don't matter anymore when I want to tell stories that aren't explicitly zero to hero.

 

[Stormonu]

I'm only saying that I can buy the cleric domains coming on at 3rd level. I'm also not a fan of the warlock's pact coming on at 3rd level.

I'm guessing you would rather the Warlock nominates the patron at 1st, but the pact doesn't come "online" until 3rd? Either way works for me, and delaying patron selection to 3rd gives new players some time to get familiar with the character before committing.

Though, I'd prefer (as a DM and for experienced players) to have in mind who their patron is from the get-go.

(Conversely, I'd now like to play around with Clerics not having to choose their deity/power to 3rd and see what comes of that...)

 

[Remathilis]

I'm only saying that I can buy the cleric domains coming on at 3rd level. I'm also not a fan of the warlock's pact coming on at 3rd level. [emoji58]

Part of the problem is that patron and pact are reversed.

In 2014, you picked your patron (subclass) at level 1 and swore a pact at level 3 (tome, blade, etc) . In 2024, you pick your pact at level 1 and your patron at level 3. Really, patron abilities should be invocations, while the pact should be your subclass. But that's more change than 2024 was going to make.

 

[ECMO3]

Usually more open means less thematic? I think what you are trying to say is that you like the some of the themes the new openness allows for better.

Others might say those allowances are less warlock thematic, even if otherwise cool.

Well I mean it is more flavorful, more story to your powers.

 

[ECMO3]

If you are a Warlock, then ALL your abilities come from your Patron... NOT just the sub-class specific ones. So you can still choose your Patron at Level 1, and the abilities and spells you get as a Level 1 Warlock come from that Patron. I mean, it's not like there's a generic "Warlock pool" of spellcasting and invocations that characters tap into for all their standardized Warlock features and it's only the "sub-class specific" abilities that come from the Patron. That's just silly. The Patron gives the Warlock all their abilities-- generic or subclass-specific.

What I have always had trouble with is "gives" in the description above. Back in the late 90s and early 2000s Warlocks in many cases "took" their abilities from their patrons.

I would agree that you "get" your abilities from your Patron and that they "come from" your Patron. I disagree that they always "give" these to you.

 

[Scribe]

I think I've asked this before, but is anyone aware of a 3PP supplement that actually makes Pacts and Patrons a thing that matters mechanically?

 

[Warpiglet-7]

I have a planned post…if work and life would allow…that speak to some of this in 2014…

I have mostly played warlocks over the past 20 years. Often with a dip but not always.

If you read everything written in the phb alone, you find a lot of space to play with. Your patron does/does not know you, you learn and grow vs are given power…the list goes on.

The framework for a lot of options is there if your dm does not insist on one route vs another.

I have a buoyed making up power sources, patrons etc and honestly the less proscriptive the better as far as I have been concerned.

The he warlock is not so powerful that they need a o be constrained for balance and as such play the fiction you want in conjunction with the dm of course.

Mine don’t care. My crazed dwarven blade pact might be serving the prince of lies. Or maybe Kostchtchie…

Whatever. It’s all good fun. Level 1, level 9…leaving the story open is a good thing. Leaving space to create is fun and not exactly abusable for balance or other considerations.

I will read the 2024 phb but feel good about warlock fiction malleability as it is.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

Most of the patrons aren't known for their honesty (or making sense for the GOO's), so that "smug devil" might really be fey messing with the warlock.

 

[DEFCON 1]

What I have always had trouble with is "gives" in the description above. Back in the late 90s and early 2000s Warlocks in many cases "took" their abilities from their patrons.

I would agree that you "get" your abilities from your Patron and that they "come from" your Patron. I disagree that they always "give" these to you.

Sure. There's no reason why a warlock couldn't steal their power from the patron rather than be granted it. Pretty much any power acquisition that comes from a being other than a god would fall under the warlock's purview.