OD&D The one man army is awesome.

Beleriphon

Totally Awesome Pirate Brain
Yeh It does sounds pretty much like the swarm mechanic.

It does, but it assumes an escalating level of difficultly the larger the combined force is in general. So fighting our erstwhile hero can fight a platoon, when it comes to fighting the whole Afrika Korps our hero is in for a much larger challenge. Amusingingly, M&M presupposes that actually fighting the entirety of the Afrika Korps is actually possible, while I would generally assume Chainmail doesn't.
 

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Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
It does, but it assumes an escalating level of difficultly the larger the combined force is in general. So fighting our erstwhile hero can fight a platoon, when it comes to fighting the whole Afrika Korps our hero is in for a much larger challenge. Amusingingly, M&M presupposes that actually fighting the entirety of the Afrika Korps is actually possible, while I would generally assume Chainmail doesn't.
Yeah or maybe a few pretty small platoons but M&M seems on a different scale.
 

Beleriphon

Totally Awesome Pirate Brain
Yeah or maybe a few pretty small platoons but M&M seems on a different scale.

Pretty much, M&M is definitely designed from the ground up for comic book superheroes. A suggested starting point for a campaign makes a hero deal damage somewhere between a sniper rifle and a naval gun.

Which is why I thought it would be interesting to adapt the rules for such a huge combat to AD&D or similar.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Pretty much, M&M is definitely designed from the ground up for comic book superheroes. A suggested starting point for a campaign makes a hero deal damage somewhere between a sniper rifle and a naval gun.

Which is why I thought it would be interesting to adapt the rules for such a huge combat to AD&D or similar.
When I was experimenting with a hitpointless AD&D I had something working (The game felt very vicious it was a bit like save or die on every attack) then I read M&M which is why that feature stood out.
 

Beleriphon

Totally Awesome Pirate Brain
When I was experimenting with a hitpointless AD&D I had something working (The game felt very vicious it was a bit like save or die on every attack) then I read M&M which is why that feature stood out.

I like M&M for a variety of reasons, the main one is taking damage makes it harder to not take damage next time, and taking enough in one go means other bad stuff happens. It isn't as viscous as save or die every round but it can lead to an inevitable death spiral depending on how things go.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
I like M&M for a variety of reasons, the main one is taking damage makes it harder to not take damage next time, and taking enough in one go means other bad stuff happens. It isn't as viscous as save or die every round but it can lead to an inevitable death spiral depending on how things go.
I tried to keep death spiral out of it given how adrenaline and other things in real life really do fight against that happening til after the fight is over (the decay to ability I kept mostly after cool down).
 

Beleriphon

Totally Awesome Pirate Brain
I tried to keep death spiral out of it given how adrenaline and other things in real life really do fight against that happening til after the fight is over (the decay to ability I kept mostly after cool down).

Yeah, either it waits, or there has to be a way offset when needed. M&M uses hero points to get a minimum of 11 on a d20 roll, or just plain not be affected by some status effects.
 

The Pathfinder SRD for troop subtype:

Troop Subtype
The troop subtype represents an organized group of trained soldiers that act as a unit, rather than as individuals. A troop is something of an abstraction, in that the component creatures that make up the troop are mostly irrelevant; only the troop as a whole matters for the purposes of combat. A troop is similar to a swarm, but is normally composed of Small or Medium creatures. Large groups of Tiny or smaller creatures should use the normal swarm rules.

Traits: A troop is not subject to flanking, but it is subject to critical hits and sneak attacks if its component creatures are subject to such attacks. Reducing a troop to 0 hit points or fewer causes it to break up, effectively destroying the troop, though the damage taken until that point does not degrade its ability to attack or resist attack.

All troops gain the following traits.

  • Troop Subtype: A troop is a collection of creatures that acts as a single creature, similar to a swarm, but typically as part of a military unit. A troop has the characteristics of its type, except as noted here. A troop has a single pool of Hit Dice and hit points, a single initiative modifier, a single speed, and a single armor class. A troop makes saving throws as a single creature. A single troop occupies a 20-foot-by-20-foot square, equal in size to a Gargantuan creature, though the actual size category of the troop is the same as that of the component creatures. The area occupied by a troop is completely shape-able, though the troop must remain in contiguous squares to accurately reflect the teamwork of trained military units. A troop has a reach equal to that of the component creatures based on size or armament. A troop can move through squares occupied by enemies and vice versa without impediment, although the troop provokes an attack of opportunity if it does so. A troop can move through any area large enough for its component creatures. The exact number of a troop’s component creatures varies, but in general, a troop of Small or Medium creatures consists of approximately 12 to 30 creatures. Larger creatures can form troops, but the area occupied by such a troop should increase proportionally according to the size of the component creatures.
  • A troop is never staggered or reduced to a dying state by damage.
  • Immunity to being Tripped or Bull Rushed: A troop cannot be tripped, grappled, or bull rushed, except by area effects that include such effects. A troop can grapple an opponent.
  • Immunity to Single Target Spells: A troop is immune to any spell or effect that targets a specific number of creatures (including single-target spells such as disintegrate and multiple target spells such as haste), though it is affected by spells or effects that target an area or a nonspecific number of creatures (such as fireball or mass hold monster).
  • Vulnerable to Area Effect Spells: A troop takes half again as much damage (+50%) from spells or effects that affect an area. If a troop is rendered unconscious by means of nonlethal damage, it disperses and does not reform until its hit points exceed its nonlethal damage.
  • Troop Attack: Creatures with the troop subtype don’t make standard melee attacks. Instead, they deal automatic damage to any creature within reach or whose space they occupy at the end of their move, with no attack roll needed. A troop’s stat block has “troop” in its Melee entry with no attack bonus given. The amount of damage a troop deals is based on its Hit Dice. Unless stated otherwise, a troop’s attacks are non-magical. Damage Reduction sufficient to reduce a troop attack’s damage to 0 or other special abilities can give a creature immunity (or at least resistance) to the troop’s attacks. Some troops also have other special attacks in addition to normal damage. Troops threaten all creatures within their reach or within their area, and attempt attacks of opportunity as normal with their troop attack.
  • Chaos of Combat: Because of the chaos of combat, spellcasting or concentrating on spells within the area of a troop or within its reach requires a caster level check (DC 20 + spell level). Using skills that involve patience and concentration requires a successful DC 20 Will save.
Looting Troops Although troops are composed of a number of individual creatures, the chaos and destruction of battle means that not all of these creatures’ equipment survives the rigors of combat. As a result, parties who wish to claim usable gear or treasure from slain foes treat a troop as a single creature for the purposes of looting.
 


Beleriphon

Totally Awesome Pirate Brain
Looking at that M&M 3E does basically the same thing, but scales it up to the "troop" potentially being as many as 50,000 individual combatants. Which is crazy, but hey this the game that models Superman reasonably well.

On Pathfinder troop types being immune to flanking. I think that's more that you can't flank 50 guys and get the melee flanking bonus as an individual, not that you can't out flank a military formation with another one.

From the SRD:
When making a melee attack, you get a +2 flanking bonus if your opponent is threatened by another enemy character or creature on its opposite border or opposite corner.

So if the fighter and the rogue are directly across from each other fighting a troop of 20 orcs, the orcs as a troop unit can't be flanked, which means the rogue and the fighter don't get the +2 bonus to hit. It isn't to suggest the orcs as a military unit can't be outflanked by a unit of elven cavalry and run down.
 

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