The one responsible for defense.

[Arkhandus]

Yep, Rhun's right. Since the weapon's damage is not listed as "slashing and piercing" two separate applications would be applied separately; one when the weapon is used for a slashing attack, and the other when it's used for a piercing attack. And the DM may find it abusive otherwise, anyhoo.

Ellie: OK, thanks for chiming in. It's always easier to first assume the DM is just a happy sadist, like most, than to assume the players are just newbies or incompetant. Sounds like the group needs Sarge to give 'em all a round military beating into shape.

.....and the Spiked Chain is better anyway for his needs. Tripping and disarming bonuses, reach, the ability to hit adjacent foes despite the chain's long reach, and decent damage. Martial polearms don't give as many of the advantages needed to make this character as effective as he needs to be at battlefield control.

....and I already suggested Dragon Shaman in the first place, just with the caveat that I don't think the DM's using Player's Handbook II. A dwarf in this game would start at 4th-level in dragon shaman possessing Str 10, Dex 8, Con 20, Int 8, Wis 8, and Cha 14 (plus one ability boost for 4th-level, likely put into Charisma), a short breath weapon that deals 2d6 damage with a Reflex save of DC 17 for half, a special ability based on his dragon totem, a skill focus bonus feat, and four draconic auras for the party, like Vigor (fast healing), Toughness (damage reduction), Energy Shield (damage to any foe that hits the party in melee without a manufactured reach weapon), and either Influence (social skill boosts) or Senses (listen/spot and initiative boost, IIRC). Don't remember if the auras would be +1 or +2 at 4th-level though (I think they go up to +2 at 5th-level or so?), though Energy Shield's neat in its damage being double the bonus. The Power aura isn't much use unless your gang has a high rate of attacks.

The Charisma matters for when he gets his healing ability at 6th-level (I think 6th?), since it's similar to a paladin's Lay on Hands but a bit different. The breath weapon DC is based on Constitution and level. Of course this dragon shaman won't be strong on offense on rounds his breath weapon's 'recharging', with only a BAB of +3 and no Strength bonus, but that just means he has to get into flanking positions for another +2 on attacks, take Weapon Focus in the Longspear (reach weapon!) for another +1, and make sure to start with his money invested in a +1 magic weapon or at least a masterwork weapon. Choose the dragon totem based on needs; with the environments you've been in I would guess a dragon totem with a line-shaped breath weapon is best but I dunno; the special ability from 3rd-level DS is based on totem and should be a factor in deciding what dragon totem is most useful to the character. This PC will not be a skills guy, definitely not; but the Influence aura and 2nd-level Skill Focus could help a tad with that anyhoo. 8 Int means 4 skill points for 1st-level, and 1 SP/level after that, sadly. Probably focus on one skill to be fairly good at (depending on totem, since that determines what skills the SF feat at 2nd-level can be applied to).

But this dragon shaman will be one tough S.O.B. Assuming max 1st-level HP and half max from each level after, he'd have 45 HP at 4th, along with his auras providing a bit of fast healing or damage reduction when needed. These will also cut down on the rest of the party's healing expenditures as well, and keep everyone alive longer (and entering each battle at 50% health or better). If he takes Armor Proficiency (Heavy) as a 1st-level feat, then at 4th he could start out in masterwork full plate (may as well have it ready for later enhancements by a friendly/caster-for-hire mage or priest with the right feat) or +1 magical full plate (if he doesn't spring for a magic weapon instead at first); his AC won't be good, but at least this would make it 19 if he also gets a masterwork heavy shield (also ready for later enhancements). With Weapon Focus (Longspear) as his 3rd-level feat, he'd be set. Oh, and of course he should be carrying a light crossbow, some bolts, and have armor spikes on his full plate. Or at least a spiked gauntlet.

 

[Quartz]

Personally, I think that last bit would be up to the DM. I wouldn't allow it, since the damage type is Slashing OR Piercing.

I disagree. A 'hit' in D&D is actually a 'telling blow'. D&D doesn't care whether you score a hit as a slashing weapon or a piercing weapon. MWM X gives you a better chance to hit as a weapon of type X, MWM Y gives you a better chance to hit as a weapon of type Y. So where a weapon qualifies as both, you get all chances. Think of it as being better with the slashing bit and being better with the piercing bit. After all, if you take WF: Halberd and WS: Halberd, with what type of weapon are you improving your skill? Slashing or piercing? Of course, it's both.

Another way of looking at it: if a monster had DR / Piercing, would you allow a halberd to bypass the DR? Equally, if a monster had DR / Slashing, would you allow a halberd to bypass the DR?

But this is really a topic for another thread.

 

[Zaruthustran]

Just a quick spring attack on this thread: add me as a vote for Dragon Shaman. At least one person with one level is terrific for party durability.

-z

 

[Pickaxe]

I'll throw in my own vote for a fighter with Improved Trip and Improved Disarm. I'm in an Age of Worms campaign where I play all four characters, originally dwarf barbarian, human conjurer, human clericN/rogue1, and bard. The bard died, and his replacement (elven ranger) also died. I then settled on a human paladin (with phenomenal rolled stats) with Improved Trip and Improved Disarm. He's a great complement to the power-attacking barbarian. For one thing, prone opponents are just asking for power attack. For another, I find that tripping and disarming (and Combat Expertise) are good for blunting the attacks of your foes while the rest of your party gets their act together.

You don't need to go spiked chain; go flail and shield, and you can be a fourth level dwarven fighter with all the feats you need: CE, Imp. Trip, Imp. Disarm, then Power Attack, or maybe Weapon Focus/Specialization (flail). You won't be the biggest damage dealer, but you'll do in a pinch and you'll make the greatsword-wielder even better.

The Adventure Paths are very challenging (I'm also playing a character [just one this time] in a Savage Tide campaign), so I'm not that surprised that your party is having trouble, especially if the players are inexperienced.

--Axe

 

[Xini]

Okay guys and gals, to just break this back down to the components.

I think Ellie has chimed in perfectly, it highlights the balance issues well.

1. If I don't take the roll of the anvil in this group then they are just going to get queered up daily.

2. If I build this character with special attacks like improved trip and improved disarm then I am both min maxing versus standard humanoids with weapons and also it means I am much more effective at flooring opponents but not at actually finshing them off. This would work but it places more impetous on others to deal the killing blow otherwise we'll end up with even more protracted fights!

3. Were I to use a two handed weapon (munchkin mode engaged) I'd be giving up a potential eight in armour class. I don't think that this is wise if I am to bear the brunt of the attacks as even with a spiked chain I am within reach of ogres etc who are liable to hit harder than I am by some margin!

4. The Dragon Shaman idea is interesting but I think it's too far away from the classic fantasy ideas to fit it into this campaign. Plus the DM is trying to keep to PHB base classes.

5. I know that many here think the fighter class is basically weak and I know that this has been the general impression of them in our games but I am determined to proove this opinion wrong. I'd like to make a pure fighter who's powerbase comes from synergistic feats and decent weaponry & armour.

6. The whole thing with refusing any NPC healer is more a matter of simplicity and pride. We've had NPC healers in the past and I for one think it's about time we bucked ourselves up and took responsibility for our own sucesses or faliures.

Personally my concept is a stout Dwarven fighter with a Dwarven Waraxe, Dwarven Battleplate and a heavy steel shield. All three moving up to adamantine and spiked as and when I can afford it (I wonder if spiked adamantine armour would count as crampons whilst climbing? ).

Feat progression would be aiming for plenty of weapon focus and weapon spec (I'm thinking power attack over expertise for using up this excessive to hit roll versus easy to hit baddies). Also I want to concentrate on being really good in heavy armour and able to use a shield with great proficiency.

My basic concerns are that I will form a magnet for spells, having only one good save (even that will fall behind those who multiclass), and also those attacks which either automatically hit (I had a dwarven paladin once with good AC and saves, was brought down easily via ray of enfeeblement and magic missile, which was annoying) or are so good as to easily hit (ie the best the enemy has to offer).

Ideally I will be facing the best the opponents have to offer in terms of a melee, protecting the party, whilst our spellcasters (ie the rest of the group) engage their spellcasters. I'm kinda hoping that whilst I concentrate on cutting down opponents and defeanding our line the "real threats" in the party will dispatch the enemy.

 

[Xini]

Ref this double weapon mastery for weapons which deal two types of damage, if your going to simplify combat to doing both at once then don't use the feat. If not then if it makes any difference what type your doing then declare it before you roll, in either case it would only apply once. I believe you can't get a bonus more than once from the same source unless it specifically states. You can't take dodge twice and apply it twice. What is being suggested is typical power gaming and should not be allowed. There's more than enough ways to break the game through semi intelligent combinations of things without letting in basic breaks too.

 

[dutorn]

9. Rolls on healing wands are almost always very low. I can't explain it. In one recent fight one of the clerics was out for about five rounds trying to heal up and kept rolling ones. Wands of faith healing are now being discussed, but wouldn't help all of the party, so they are figuring out how to balance it.

Our group has the option to take a DM roll on healing spells (ONLY healing spells) So for instance if we roll a 3 on a D8, we get the option of saying we'll take a DM's roll. Once you've called for a DM roll, you HAVE to take his/her roll, whether it's lower or not. This has allowed for a somewhat more efficient healing system which we need since we're running through Savage Tides.

I would recommend this system, it works for us, it may work well for you also.

 

[billd91]

6. The whole thing with refusing any NPC healer is more a matter of simplicity and pride. We've had NPC healers in the past and I for one think it's about time we bucked ourselves up and took responsibility for our own sucesses or faliures.

Then why not take it upon yourselves to fix deficiencies in the party by hiring them and paying them well? That's an in-character way of taking the responsibility. AND you'll be dealing with the problem of having a party a bit smaller than the challenges in the campaign are worth.

 

[Xini]

Then why not take it upon yourselves to fix deficiencies in the party by hiring them and paying them well? That's an in-character way of taking the responsibility. AND you'll be dealing with the problem of having a party a bit smaller than the challenges in the campaign are worth.

Interesting point. Basically this thinking leads me to the conclusion that from a player's perspective dying IS the irresponsible path. We should instead do what is necessary to survive even if that means hiring NPCs.

 

[Rhun]

Personally my concept is a stout Dwarven fighter with a Dwarven Waraxe, Dwarven Battleplate and a heavy steel shield. All three moving up to adamantine and spiked as and when I can afford it (I wonder if spiked adamantine armour would count as crampons whilst climbing? ).

This would be a good build. I would consider a tower shield, though, instead of a heavy shield. This would give you an AC of 23 when combined with Dwarven Battleplate. You won't deal quite as much damage as you could with a two-handed weapon, but you'd be pretty hard to hit. If you can manage a 12 Dex and the Dodge feat, you are looking at an AC of 25 without any magical help.